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Marc Stein: Jazz-Warriors discuss pre-Lottery trade (Source says trade "likely")

The Thriller said:
I don't think you understand what the situation is.
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I do understand the situation. We're talking about the fact that the Ws pick next year(2013) is likely to be in the 10 - 14 range, even with their injury problems, meaning that re-negotiating the protection on that pick isn't likely going to net us anything.
 
I don't really understand why people are always comparing and weighing the worth of a certain pick number. Like saying, Nobody has ever been good at the 14th pick or whatever. You should be counting all the good players that have come after the 14th pick plus the 14th pick. It's up to you as a GM to make a good pick. Just because there are a lot of dumb GM's out there missing on these picks doesn't mean we will miss. Unless KOC screws it up.

I just think that is kind of a dumb way of looking at it. At the 14th pick you could have had the 15th pick and so on.
 
Catchall said:
I'm just saying, I don't see what the Ws have that would make us want to give up our chance at the pick. We've got nothing to lose by taking our swing with a .280 hitter, and we don't have much if anything to gain by making a deal with GSW, unless the Jazz are high on a player expected to be there at the last pick of the first round.
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This is what I've been saying since post #3. I know, for a fact, that the Jazz are REAL high on DMIller, JJenkins, and Jtaylor. TIFWIW.
 
Catchall said:
I do understand the situation. We're talking about the fact that the Ws pick next year(2013) is likely to be in the 10 - 14 range, even with their injury problems, meaning that re-negotiating the protection on that pick isn't likely going to net us anything.
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Bingo! Which is why I think asking for #30 and 35 and giving up #47 isn't an insane amount to guarantee they get #7 (or 8 or 9) this year.
 
BluesRocker said:
I don't really understand why people are always comparing and weighing the worth of a certain pick number. Like saying, Nobody has ever been good at the 14th pick or whatever. You should be counting all the good players that have come after the 14th pick plus the 14th pick. It's up to you as a GM to make a good pick. Just because there are a lot of dumb GM's out there missing on these picks doesn't mean we will miss. Unless KOC screws it up.

I just think that is kind of a dumb way of looking at it. At the 14th pick you could have had the 15th pick and so on.
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Damn, I may just die. GREAT post. Rep'd.
 
The Thriller said:
You provide the comparisons. You're the one that is supposed to prove your point. Prove to me why Marshall couldn't or wouldn't help us.

Again, if you don't think that Millsap is contributing or that having Matthews doesn't improve us, then you obviously haven't ever seen basketball. If you really don't think having Ibaka, Parker, Ginobli, etc wouldn't help us then you're a complete moron.

As far as getting any great players... Again, who is available at #8? When was Kobe Bryant drafted again?
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Wasn't kobe the one who threaten to go over seas if he wasn't drafted by the lakers? If you look on different web sites as far as kendall Marshall you can see the what he is being compared to. https://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kendall-Marshall-5095/ for instance says his best case is Andre Miller and worst is Mark Jackson. We will still have our pick next year. It isn't like this year we are loosing out on something we already have.
 
shadler said:
Wasn't kobe the one who threaten to go over seas if he wasn't drafted by the lakers? If you look on different web sites as far as kendall Marshall you can see the what he is being compared to. https://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kendall-Marshall-5095/ for instance says his best case is Andre Miller and worst is Mark Jackson. We will still have our pick next year. It isn't like this year we are loosing out on something we already have.
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Uh, mark Jackson was a better player than Andre Miller so that makes no sense.
 
The more I think about it, it's probably more likely that the timeframe for receiving the pick would be lengthened, than having GS remove the protection from it.

So maybe we get #30 #35 and a couple more years are tacked on to the time we could get the pick.

I think GS considers themselves a playoff contender, but its too risky for them to make the pick unprotected.

Also, I am definitely in the group that thinks we have all of the leverage and that a 28% chance at the 8th pick might be more valuable than a bunch of spare parts.
 
Catchall said:
I'm just saying, I don't see what the Ws have that would make us want to give up our chance at the pick. We've got nothing to lose by taking our swing with a .280 hitter, and we don't have much if anything to gain by making a deal with GSW, unless the Jazz are high on a player expected to be there at the last pick of the first round.

Edit: So you weigh the value of backing out of the #8 pick this year vs. the value of lowering pick protection next year. I'd rather take door #1 because we have a shot at a good player at #8.
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I agree with this guy. Someone get him a cookie.

I like the baseball reference. It makes our odds sound a lot better.

Side note. Your avatar matches your name. Anytime you change it, you should stick to the same theme.
 
PKM said:
This. We were there in the first half of page #1 and still trying to defend/persuade at page #here.
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Right. That's a tough call for me, but I'm the guy saying if you have a chance at a #8 pick in this draft, you'd better take it.
 
Catchall said:
I'm just saying, I don't see what the Ws have that would make us want to give up our chance at the pick. We've got nothing to lose by taking our swing with a .280 hitter, and we don't have much if anything to gain by making a deal with GSW, unless the Jazz are high on a player expected to be there at the last pick of the first round.

Edit: So you weigh the value of backing out of the #8 pick this year vs. the value of lowering pick protection next year. I'd rather take door #1 because we have a shot at a good player at #8.
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I can see how people want the pick and want this so called pg of the future but the jazz are going to have to be very lucky to have all the stars line up to get what they want. I like the idea of doing an unprotected pick next year and use 3 million to get around the top 15 and maybe doing a few trades from their if they are high on a player in the top 10. Every year someone is so high on someone on this board it they end up being a joke.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
As I've pointed out, I don't find it unreasonable. Even if they give us next year's 1st, unprotected, it may be ****. This year's draft class is much stronger than next year's, and considering that it's likely that that said unprotected next year wouldn't likely be #8 but probably more in the #11-13 range, then it's even worse. Asking for #30 and 35 back to offset that while giving them #47 in return isn't asking for the world.
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The 30/35 for 47 may well be worth it assuming the rest of the deal remains the same. I would consider it Plan B. But Plan A is still getting a guaranteed 1st. Any unconditional or guaranteed 1st, however, takes those picks out of the question. A guaranteed 1st is the biggest card, and we'd have to give up something to get it.
 
shadler said:
I like how everyone thinks we are missing out of some all star with the 8th pic. I say take the most gs is willing to give up for it because we have a lot of other options we can do in the draft or the off season. I like the 3 million to use on another pic and unprotected next year. I would like an unprotected next year, their latter pic this year and 3 million but that might be too much.
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Nope. It's not that at all. If we don't have a pick this year it means we will see raja bell,Cj miles and watson/tinsley with more playing time than they deserve.
 
Catchall said:
Right. That's a tough call for me, but I'm the guy saying if you have a chance at a #8 pick in this draft, you'd better take it.
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With that I'm torn. So I agree, to an extent. Understanding odds and being in a gambling group (I'm not), I look at it through those goggles. Odds against us this year. Level those odds out by getting unprotected next year. Playing the thin line odds .. so much more to it than that, for sure, but that's the starting point.
 
billyshelby said:
The 30/35 for 47 may well be worth it assuming the rest of the deal remains the same. I would consider it Plan B. But Plan A is still getting a guaranteed 1st. Any unconditional or guaranteed 1st, however, takes those picks out of the question. A guaranteed 1st is the biggest card, and we'd have to give up something to get it.
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We can agree to disagree then. 'Cause imo, the Warriors are very likely to be better next year, thus making the protected/unprotected conditions moot.
 
Shaggy said:
Nope. It's not that at all. If we don't have a pick this year it means we will see raja bell,Cj miles and watson/tinsley with more playing time than they deserve.
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Raja cj are gone but I do agree we need a pg. Jazz have some options.
 
The Warriors sitting in the 10th slot next year with no protection at least gives the Jazz a chance at a top 3 pick - something they have no opportunity of with the current protections...just throwing that out there...
 
Wes Mantooth said:
Uh, mark Jackson was a better player than Andre Miller so that makes no sense.
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I was looking at all time assists, and Andre Miller is starting to work his way up there. Kind of surprising. I wonder how much longer he can play? Miller in the 10th spot, 2300 behind Mark. He probably won't pass him, but might end up pretty close. Miller, with his ground game, might play a long time.
 
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