Welcome back to Salt Lake - Mo Williams

[franklin]

We have different conceptions of this word.

In general, however, I'm appreciating your counterpoints.

I don't see it as counterpoints or much disagreement really--just using different angles to break down the many issues with this team.

You're right about me using featured incorrectly. I'm going off the SAS series too much. He was featured a ton there, & it's probably not fair to judge him on that performance. The offense wasn't giving anyone anything easy & they relied on his drive n dish when nothing else worked. Even LeBron would have failed in that setup.

 

[sepanol]

Why?

He is an ok pg. He dont have any really good side, he is ok on many sides of the game but not really great and his defense is questionable. Plus he is a proven not initiative taker in critical games, as we saw in Cleveland. Am i wrong?

We are just an ok team right now, i was expecting moves like, a promising youngster for pg and sf (like brandon knight) but we got just ok players, Mo and Marvin (if its true). I dont like the idea of mixing these pre vets and young guys like favors, kanter , hayward. Just find two more young players and rebuild the damn team. We will not be more than an ok team this year with these type of moves. At least thats what i think

 

[sepanol]

Hayward can't drive. I don't see him ever being effective as a primary ball handler, and he wasn't even very good on PnR's. That said, he could improve dramatically if he can learn to pull up in the lane, and he can definitely be more effective cutting to the hoop (not just scoring but playmaking.) Hayward's a guy who needs to get the ball, not start with it.

Who is a real dribbler in our team apart from Burks?
And its pretty obvious they arent a good duo with him at 2 and hayward at 3, at least defensively.
This team is pretty complicated right now, has a great potential but there is an obvious ambiguosity which must be fixed. Otherwise, we will be nothing more than an ok team for another 10 years.

 

[Deleted member 848]

He is an ok pg. He dont have any really good side, he is ok on many sides of the game but not really great and his defense is questionable. Plus he is a proven not initiative taker in critical games, as we saw in Cleveland. Am i wrong?

We are just an ok team right now, i was expecting moves like, a promising youngster for pg and sf (like brandon knight) but we got just ok players, Mo and Marvin (if its true). I dont like the idea of mixing these pre vets and young guys like favors, kanter , hayward. Just find two more young players and rebuild the damn team. We will not be more than an ok team this year with these type of moves. At least thats what i think

You're disappointed that KOC didn't somehow land Brandon Knight?!?!



Gods, where is NUMBERICA's sig when you need it.

 

[bluenote]

From the archives...

[video=youtube_share;k6Aq0adeo5I]https://youtu.be/k6Aq0adeo5I

 

[sepanol]

You're disappointed that KOC didn't somehow land Brandon Knight?!?!



Gods, where is NUMBERICA's sig when you need it.

Im giving just an example, i expect a promising young pg, not an adequate veteran starter like mo

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9rUn2YchOY

 

[Stifle Tower]

Im giving just an example, i expect a promising young pg, not an adequate veteran starter like mo

Most teams want a few vets to balance the roster. OKC took off after trading away Green and getting the more-experienced Perkins.

Yes, who DOESN'T want a great young player? In KOC's interview he talks about teams in the near-lottery range trying to trade up, but nothing happened. IINM, the only lottery trade that happened was a swap of the 14th + Dalembert for the 12th pick. With the huge penalties coming up for being over the tax line, young players are more valuable than ever, and that goes for future picks as well. Which great young players or prospects have been traded thus far?

What KOC has done is use assets with a limited shelf to obtain other assets that have a longer shelf life. If Mo and Marvin work out, fantastic. If not, they represent expiring contracts which can be used to get other assets. Personally, I LOVE the acquisition of Mo. To me, he's like a younger Watson. He brings veteran leadership and has the ability to start for another few seasons. After that, I think he's not going to mind being a backup and mentor.

Marvin is a question mark, sure. A solid player but a bit overpaid for his production. He definitely has skills, but does he have the passion? That's the risk. Maybe the answer is no. But maybe the answer is that he was on a team with a lot of selfish shooters. Whatever the case, he's a solid guy. It's not like we're taking a shot on a player with great potential but a checkered past like Beasley.

And it's not like we're assuming HUGE bad contracts. Look at the team we have. Now realize even with the players we have and IF we re-sign Millsap, UTAH will STILL have cap space for a MAX-level player next season. Now I'm not saying that puts us in line for CP3 or Howard. But a few teams might want to get rid of other good veterans in order to go after those FA's. When all most teams have available is their MLE, KOC could easily swoop in and get 2-3 very good players at $7-8M per.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Saints fan. I now fully support Mo.

 

[carolinajazz]

Who is a real dribbler in our team apart from Burks?

.....we don't pile up wins by dribbling....and no player I know gets a dollar a dribble or they would be richer than they already are! If you noticed, the Heat beat the Thunder because they did less dribbling and more passing than they did! We need to get back to that type of offensive philosophy if we expect to beat these teams who are more athletic than we are.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

More Mo.

https://www.nba.com/jazz/video/2012/07/03/williamsmomp4-2146110/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2

 

[Stifle Tower]

Saints fan. I now fully support Mo.

I fully support if he puts a bounty on Kobe, Lebron or D. Howard ;-)

 

[Brown Notes]

He is an ok pg. He dont have any really good side, he is ok on many sides of the game but not really great and his defense is questionable. Plus he is a proven not initiative taker in critical games, as we saw in Cleveland. Am i wrong?

We are just an ok team right now, i was expecting moves like, a promising youngster for pg and sf (like brandon knight) but we got just ok players, Mo and Marvin (if its true). I dont like the idea of mixing these pre vets and young guys like favors, kanter , hayward. Just find two more young players and rebuild the damn team. We will not be more than an ok team this year with these type of moves. At least thats what i think

What KOC did was acquire role players that fit better without committing or giving up practically anything. What those 2 guys do without even hitting the court is make it really easy to let go of CJ, Bell, Harris and Howard. It's easy to wish for more potential stars but these were two smart moves.

I agree with your assessment of Mo. He was flat out awful for Cleveland in the playoffs after having a very good regular season. But Harris now has that same blot on his resume after the SAS series. So, better fit, equal value.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

What KOC did was acquire role players that fit better without committing or giving up practically anything. What those 2 guys do without even hitting the court is make it really easy to let go of CJ, Bell, Harris and Howard. It's easy to wish for more potential stars but these were two smart moves.

I agree with your assessment of Mo. He was flat out awful for Cleveland in the playoffs after having a very good regular season. But Harris now has that same blot on his resume after the SAS series. So, better fit, equal value.

Even if you don't like Mo, or believe he's not an upgrade, the fact that KOC put the team in a position to drop all the ineffective players on the roster is huge, huge win. Yeah, he's only traded one players and picked up two new guys, but man..... this gets rid of CJ, Howard, Raja, and Harris. Color me very happy.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Even if you don't like Mo, or believe he's not an upgrade, the fact that KOC put the team in a position to drop all the ineffective players on the roster is huge, huge win. Yeah, he's only traded one players and picked up two new guys, but man..... this gets rid of CJ, Howard, Raja, and Harris. Color me very happy.

Agree. And it rids the team of the perceived obligation to give minutes to those four. A wing rotation of Marvin, Alec and Gordon, with a touch of Carroll for defense or Murphy for scoring, is WAY better than Howard, Bell, CJ and 15 mins of Burks.

Mo will be better than Harris. But even if it's a wash in terms of skills, Mo will give the team the leadership we need. And like BrownNotes pointed out, KOC gave up practically nothing. The TPE was going to expire in December. Now - at worst - he has Mo as an expiring. Assume Mo is a complete failure. Then you trade his contract at the deadline or just say, thanks, but no thanks and have the extra cap space next summer. Marvin is a bit more risky, as he probably opts in. If he doesn't, it means he had a terrific season and thinks he can earn more as a FA. If he has a poor season, then we're stuck with his deal. But the Jazz have a ton of cap space and would only have it for 1 more season, so no real harm.

 

[The Midnight]

Posted this elsewhere but got no traction... here's a nice tune for your Sunday afternoon relaxation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiDctS2QdpE

 

[BabyPeterzz]

Agree. And it rids the team of the perceived obligation to give minutes to those four. A wing rotation of Marvin, Alec and Gordon, with a touch of Carroll for defense or Murphy for scoring, is WAY better than Howard, Bell, CJ and 15 mins of Burks.

Mo will be better than Harris. But even if it's a wash in terms of skills, Mo will give the team the leadership we need. And like BrownNotes pointed out, KOC gave up practically nothing. The TPE was going to expire in December. Now - at worst - he has Mo as an expiring. Assume Mo is a complete failure. Then you trade his contract at the deadline or just say, thanks, but no thanks and have the extra cap space next summer. Marvin is a bit more risky, as he probably opts in. If he doesn't, it means he had a terrific season and thinks he can earn more as a FA. If he has a poor season, then we're stuck with his deal. But the Jazz have a ton of cap space and would only have it for 1 more season, so no real harm.

In all honesty I would give Marvin two seasons of burn to see what he can do. I'd be fine with that.