Seeing AL Objectively - SLCdunk article

[Ben10]

i also don't know that i agree that the jazz are building around al simply because they got three point shooters. first of all, paul can command a double-team too (and even favors will demand some attention assuming he comes back with another move or two in his repertoire). it's not like having shooters only benefits a team that plays a staggeringly slow-paced form of basketball that is predicated on the ball getting stuck on the low block for half the possession. i think they got guys to make the team better and more flexible. maybe that will help al, or maybe it will help derrick become the future star of the franchise. either way, i don't like jumping to the conclusion that this was all designed with al in mind, especially since al is the one guy they COULD have locked up long term this summer and they didn't.

The only part that I disagree with is that Millsap commands a double team. I remember multipule times last season at the end of game when they went to him that the other team would not double and Sap still had a hard time getting off a high percentage shot.

Again I agree with you that Al is not the corner stone of a championship team, and I guess thats all that matters. But I'm still not sure that the battle on who to keep (sap or Al) is as clear cut as your mind has made it. It makes perfect sense that the Jazz offered Sap the extention they did because of the #'s. There is no way they are signing Al back up for more than his current rate so offering him an extention off what he is making now makes no sense. I guess we well see after this year, or the trade deadline.

Just as long as Favors is getting around 36 min a night that is all I care about

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Hmm...that raises a good point.

Who'd you rather have, Jefferson at Jefferson's salary or Millsap at Jefferson's salary?

 

[theNBAnerd]

The only part that I disagree with is that Millsap commands a double team. I remember multipule times last season at the end of game when they went to him that the other team would not double and Sap still had a hard time getting off a high percentage shot.

Again I agree with you that Al is not the corner stone of a championship team, and I guess thats all that matters. But I'm still not sure that the battle on who to keep (sap or Al) is as clear cut as your mind has made it. It makes perfect sense that the Jazz offered Sap the extention they did because of the #'s. There is no way they are signing Al back up for more than his current rate so offering him an extention off what he is making now makes no sense. I guess we well see after this year, or the trade deadline.

Just as long as Favors is getting around 36 min a night that is all I care about

well the end result of our logic is the same... it needs to be all about how to help favors realize his potential. we gave up an all-NBA talent to get favors, so it's just not acceptable to keep finding excuses to not develop him into our future star.

and an al-favors frontcourt just doesn't work. millsap-favors is a dynamic, versatile, exciting, defensive tandem and gives favors the best chance at developing into a beast, as opposed to developing into a guy who stands still and watched the ball get stuck in the post.

 

[billyshelby]

paul can command a double-team too (and even favors will demand some attention assuming he comes back with another move or two in his repertoire).

No he can't. And neither can Favors. At least not based on anything we have have seen. The biggest fly in the ointment with all the myopic efficiency arguments is this: Sap's kryptonite is length. With Al on the floor, he never sees a 5. With Favors on the floor, he will regularly be defended by 5's because teams will happily challenge Favors to beat them with 4's.

If Sap faces a steady diet of 7 footers, he will not be nearly as effective, which will turn him into a much less efficient player than Al.

But to Sap's credit, he always improves, and maybe he's got a few more rabbits in the hat. I doubt it, though. He doesn't have Al's footwork or technique to beat bigger guys.

 

[billyshelby]

Fair. Still, for player movement/cuts to be effective, the player with the ball in his hands needs to be able to make quick decisions AND make passes with some precision. I don't think Al has shown an ability to do either of those things. With that said, in the video posted by franklin, Al was able to make the required pass from the high post in a couple high-low situations. If Al doesn't show an ability to make passes to those out of his immediate field of vision, using him from the high post more frequently might leverage the defense more and improve the offense.

Lets see Al have a chance to make any passes to cutters with regularity before we decide what he can and can't do. He's had 1) the disastrous Deron year where everything fell apart; and 2) last season when he barely had a cutter to not recognize.

All reports on Marvin are that he's a good cutter. Hayward should be improved in that department. We'll find out this year if Al can find cutters.

 

[billyshelby]

Hmm...that raises a good point.

Who'd you rather have, Jefferson at Jefferson's salary or Millsap at Jefferson's salary?

An excellent question with an easy answer.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Millsap at Millsap's salary, and no Jefferson salary.

 

[Brown Notes]

Millsap at Millsap's salary, and no Jefferson salary.

That will not happen. Sap is going to get poison pilled. Utah will have to devote real money to keep him. That's a difficult decision unless you don't care about Favors, Hayward, Burks and Kanter.

 

[NUMBERICA]

That will not happen. Sap is going to get poison pilled. Utah will have to devote real money to keep him. That's a difficult decision unless you don't care about Favors, Hayward, Burks and Kanter.

"Poison pilled"? That's a little bit dramatic, if not wholly untrue if you're talking about what that is defined as in the CBA.

The Jazz will pay him or they won't. He's not getting $65 million over five years (at least not from the Jazz), so let's stop with an absurd hypothetical. But if I had to choose between either player at the same salary, it's Millsap 55 weeks a year.

But I'm not stressing my point enough: I don't want Al Jefferson salary, Millsap or not.

 

[Brown Notes]

Asik got a deal with one year worth way, way more than he ought to ever be paid, which is why he is no longer in Chicago. That's the type of thing that would ruin our chances of signing Sap. The Jazz cannot risk being unable to extend the young talent. Millsap is a much better player than Asik, and somebody who can project a year in the future where they can take a hit will do the math.

Utah will not match an offer that has Sap making 15 mil+ in 2015 or whenever. Like everybody else here I love him as a player but this is a very believable scenario. Sap is absolutely a deadline trade waiting to happen. It's really too bad Utah couldn't make a better offer than they did.

It's also possible that neither Jefferson nor Millsap is on the team next year depending on what Enes does. IMO Jeff's future rides upon Kanter's season.

 

[GVC]

The Jazz cannot risk being unable to extend the young talent.

This oft-repeated sentiment is a truckload of ********. You don't dump positive, easily tradeable assets in favor of a bunch of "what-if"'s. Boozer was let go because at his current contract he's virtually untradeable. Sap at $10-12mm per year can be moved. Easily.

****.

 

[GVC]

With that said, I'd be pretty uncomfortable signing Millsap to anything over $11mm per year or Jefferson to anything over $10mm per year. It shoul dbe a pretty interesting 12 months in Jazzland.

 

[Brown Notes]

This oft-repeated sentiment is a truckload of ********. You don't dump positive, easily tradeable assets in favor of a bunch of "what-if"'s. Boozer was let go because at his current contract he's virtually untradeable. Sap at $10-12mm per year can be moved. Easily.

****.

I don't think this is true. We haven't seen the new CBA implemented fully but it seems that players like Millsap who are a notch or two below superstar status can't be paid 2/3 of the Max. These are the guys who will have to take a cut. If Sap doesn't get any better (blasphemy, I know) he's not a top PF and cannot command big time money.

Boozer is an excellent example and his contract is what will keep them from improving that team. You're right in that it's not just about extending the young guys. The Jazz also need leverage in FA. Maybe that means extending Sap, maybe not.

With that said, I'd be pretty uncomfortable signing Millsap to anything over $11mm per year or Jefferson to anything over $10mm per year. It shoul dbe a pretty interesting 12 months in Jazzland.

Yea, that's what I'm saying.

 

[GVC]

My point is that if a contract can be dumped for picks/expiring players/cheap players, it's still a better asset than nothing at all. Unless, that is, if it adversely affects a team's ability to sign other teams' free agents OR develop their existing youth/longterm pieces. 2013 is a free agency year for the Jazz, and fortunately they can afford to wait it out, see what's available, and either re-sign Sap and/or Al or renounce them to free up cap space to sign other players. Beyond the 2013 offseason, it's a mystery what will happen, and if either of those particular players are signed at reasonable amounts, the ease of moving them at the 2014 trade deadline makes re-signing them a no-brainer.

 

[franklin]

Utah will not match an offer that has Sap making 15 mil+ in 2015 or whenever. Like everybody else here I love him as a player but this is a very believable scenario. Sap is absolutely a deadline trade waiting to happen. It's really too bad Utah couldn't make a better offer than they did.

Not to mention Sap will be free to go where ever he likes. He may not choose Utah even if the Jazz offer him more than somewhere he feels more needed. Sap wants to start & Sap wants to win.

This oft-repeated sentiment is a truckload of ********. You don't dump positive, easily tradeable assets in favor of a bunch of "what-if"'s. Boozer was let go because at his current contract he's virtually untradeable. Sap at $10-12mm per year can be moved. Easily.

****.

When was Boozer let go?

 

[Brown Notes]

Not to mention Sap will be free to go where ever he likes. He may not choose Utah even if the Jazz offer him more than somewhere he feels more needed. Sap wants to start & Sap wants to win.

Yea. I didn't want to say it because it's so depressing to think about, but I've never seen anything from PM since his last extention that says to me he wants to be in Utah.

Edit to add: IMO Sap wants to go back to playing with a high end PG.

 

[GVC]

When was Boozer let go?

2 years ago in a sign-and-trade.

 

[One Brow]

Sap wants to start & Sap wants to win.

How unfortunate that he has contradictory goals.

 

[franklin]

Boozer was let go because at his current contract he's virtually untradeable.

2 years ago in a sign-and-trade.

How high are you?

 

[NAOS]

How high are you?

cmon Franky, you aren't being very generous here. Boozer was let go at the moment 'the market' dictated a value which, beyond that moment, would have made him hard to deal. Just ask Chicago.

Utah takes a flyer on Jefferson to keep a moody superstar in contention. Jefferson couldn't deliver. Worth the chance? Maybe, but the project that brought Jefferson here has been over for a while, and he's holding back the current project.