So I want to talk about the Mormons

[BabyPeterzz]

I would like to know why Mormons think those that disagree or even dislike the LDS faith think that they hate or dislike Mormons.

Mormons have a lot in common with homosexuals in our society. Maybe one day they'll realize it.

 

[spycam1]

I've said this before on JF and this seems a reasonable time to bring it up again. I once spoke with a man whose dad was a scholar for the LDS church had spent the better part of his life studying Joseph Smith. This scholar explained to his son that after decades of research on Joseph Smith that he had found enough evidence that someone could use to prove that he was a true prophet of God. He also explained that he had found enough evidence that could be used by someone to show that he was not a prophet. The scholar explained to his son that after all his years of studying the prophet, it still came down to a personal choice; it was still up to the scholar to choose for himself whether or not he believed Joseph Smith was a prophet.

For what it's worth, the scholar told his son that he made the concious decision to believe that Joseph Smith was a true prophet.

Here's a question, though. Do we actively choose what we believe? Or is our belief something deep inside us that we have intuitively come to a conclusion about? For instance, if I have a green piece of paper, could I theoretically choose to believe that it is red? In my opinion, no. I believe we can choose to have faith--faith being defined as acting on a belief--but I'm not sure we can choose to have a deep-seeded conviction about something, if that makes sense.

 

[franklin]

I would like to know why Mormons think those that disagree or even dislike the LDS faith think that they hate or dislike Mormons.

Mormons have a lot in common with homosexuals in our society. Maybe one day they'll realize it.

False equivalence. Homos are actually persecuted where many Mormons have that good old Christian we are persecuted for being righteous Christians complex. The Catholics I know have all gotten over that due to sheer population numbers, thank goodness. They also tend to be even more overbearing on the religious side of things IMO. Some days at work are loooooong listening to that end of the world is nigh at and bull ****.

 

[Beantown]

Wtf, Beantown. You rep me that you agree with me and neg me? That's a clown rep, bro.

My bad I must have hit the neg rep on my damn phone. That was a Beanclown move. I will make it up to ya.

 

[colton]

So let me ask this. Why Mormons believe that Joseph Smith visions and Book of Mormon is any better ( or more believable ) then Bible, Quran, Torah, NWT and so on? Why would non religious person who is looking to chose one of the religions should believe Book of Mormon and not the Quran for example? Why Mormons claim that Muhhamad is not a prophet ( I agree with them here) of God but Joseph Smith is?

That's a complicated question, and there are likely as many answers as there are Mormons. Just to clarify one point, though, Mormons also are Christian and believe in the Bible.

For me, I have read the Book of Mormon many, many times, and believe it comes from God. I do not believe that a man could have created such a book, especially not an uneducated 24 year old farmer like Joseph Smith. Its teachings, and the power I feel as I read it, affect my life in many ways and make me a better person. The Bible does that as well.

As to why I have a belief in God to begin with, I have had many spiritual experiences where I have felt a power beyond my own. It is consistent with the testimony of the prophets in the Bible, Book of Mormon, and modern day ones, namely Joseph Smith and his successors. As I pray, I have felt answers to prayers. Believers will attribute this to the Holy Spirit (aka Holy Ghost); unbelievers will say it is my own imaginings. Some of these answers to prayers have led me to believe that Jesus Christ is my savior, and that he died to provide an atonement, or reconciliation between us and God. (That rules out Muhammad's teachings for me, by the way, because he taught that Jesus was a prophet but not anything more than a man.)

If you really want to understand this, I recommend you try reading the scriptures such as the Bible and Book of Mormon yourself, and pray to see if you feel the Holy Spirit in response. Once you feel God working in your life, you can then decide which path He wants you to go down.

 

[colton]

I know that his brother was already a Freemason and possibly his father? The theory I am familiar with posits that Hyrum provided Joseph with the writings.

According to the Wikipedia article, here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_Freemasonry, yes their father was a Freemason. "The father, Joseph Smith, Sr., was a documented member in upstate New York. He was raised to the degree of Master Mason on May 7, 1818 in Ontario Lodge No. 23 of Canandaigua, New York."

But claiming that Hyrum wrote the Book of Mormon doesn't explain anything in my opinion. It maintains all of the same questions about how an ignorant farmer could produce such a document. And it adds new questions--why would Hyrum do this? Why would he continue to support his brother (younger brother, even) Joseph as a prophet for his whole life, to such an extent that he would even die with him? Plus, I don't even think Hyrum was around the whole time as the Book of Mormon was being written down on paper.

 

[colton]

Is it just me, or does it seem like a lot of non-members here in Utah go out of their way to demonize the LDS Church? I mean, I get that people don't/won't believe in it, but what I don't get is why people go out of their way to make it seem like it's so terrible, evil, etc. That's why I stopped reading comments on FB News pages because people would make anti/ignorant/rude/hehepeepeecaca comments about the LDS church, regardless if the article had to do anything about religion. Why so much hate?

I agree. I've stopped reading the SL Tribune website for anything other than sports for the same reason. Its comment sections after articles are cesspools and I'm continually shocked that they tolerate that kind of crap on their site. I've lived literally across the country, from East Coast to West Coast and in between, and I've never seen as much hatred for the Mormons as I have here in Utah.

 

[Gameface]

The plight of the majority. I don't hate Mormons by any means, some of my extended family is LDS and I love them. It's the institution I have issues with. I'm a member of the minority both dal and GF mentioned and it makes it difficult. Most non-LDS have no issues with individuals, it's the LDS religion and its influence. It doesn't speak for us, doesn't really care to, and its in our face everyday.

I love Utah, but some Mormons in positions of power (the entire state govt.) look down on me and my values. It's hard, it makes me angry, and I don't like it.

But I love your yoked out ***, you son of a bitch.

Good post.

I don't hate mormons either. In fact, I'm quite proud of my LDS ancestry. When I slam Mormons I feel like it's sort of an "all in the family" type thing but I can see where LDS folks would probably not see me as being part of the larger LDS cultural family.

I lived outside Utah for about 6 years. I liked some of the places I lived, San Diego in particular. My (only) sister and my wife's (only) sister moved to San Diego before I went into the Navy and I worked hard to make sure I could get orders in San Diego. I'm rambling...anyway, my sister and my wife's sister were certain we'd stay in San Diego even after I got out of the Navy, but I love Utah. Utah is my home. I identify with the people, the character and for the most part the culture of Utah, I just don't share the majority faith.

When meaningless and ineffective laws impact my life and my ability to live and do what I want when I'm not hurting anyone it angers me. I'm mean it makes me downright mad. I (and so many others) want to change that. Not to destroy our local culture or change our character, but just to have a little sanity.

 

[The Black Swordsman]

This is what some of you are saying essentially.

"I don't hate Mormons, I just think the LDS faith is stupid and deserves ridicule"

 

[MVP]

If you really want to understand this, I recommend you try reading the scriptures such as the Bible and Book of Mormon yourself, and pray to see if you feel the Holy Spirit in response. Once you feel God working in your life, you can then decide which path He wants you to go down.

Well, thanks for detailed and sincere answer. Hate to disappoint you, but all I felt when reading the Bible or Quran ( I will admit I could not finish all of it ) that I am wasting my time reading legends and myths from thousands years ago. I enjoyed reading greek mythology way more for example - at least it was fun and entertaining.
I may give Book of Mormon a try during the summer vacation but can't promise I will be able to go through all of it. Is it available in e-book format?

 

[GVC]

Once you feel God working in your life, you can then decide which path He wants you to go down.

Once?

How long should that endeavor take? What's a reasonable amount of time to expect one person to investigate your faith without any (significant) confirmation of its truthfulness? Should one ignore ALL other faiths and only seek the truth from the Mormons their whole life, even when said search bares no fruit? How does one decide how to allocate time/effort in their gods-finding quest among all the world's religion (ignoring other worthy pursuits)? If this decision is so random/arbitrary, doesn't it serve as a testament that whichever gods made this their plan are poor planners/highly inefficient?

And that's the crux of the whole "one true church"/organized religion thing for me. If this is what God had in mind, he's not terribly bright, and certainly not worthy of worship. I'm all for seeking truth, be it "objective", "spiritual", what have you. Falling in line with a bureaucratic, dogmatic religion seems to run counter to that objective.

 

[colton]

Well, thanks for detailed and sincere answer. Hate to disappoint you, but all I felt when reading the Bible or Quran ( I will admit I could not finish all of it ) that I am wasting my time reading legends and myths from thousands years ago.

No problem. You have to make your choices based on your own experiences.

I may give Book of Mormon a try during the summer vacation but can't promise I will be able to go through all of it. Is it available in e-book format?

You can read it online, here: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm?lang=eng. Depending on what reader you have, there's usually an LDS app you can download and use to read the Book of Mormon (and other LDS scriptures). Looks like Project Gutenberg has it in various formats, here: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/17.

 

[bigb]

This is what some of you are saying essentially.

"I don't hate Mormons, I just think the LDS faith is stupid and deserves ridicule"

I'm not getting that at all. What I'm understanding is this:
"I don't hate Mormons. In fact, I have family and friends who are Mormons. What I hate is the fact that since it is the main religion in this state, some of their rules have been passed into law and I am forced to obey them."
To a certain extent, I agree with them. Granted, I follow the laws of the Mormon church, so the governmental laws don't affect me anyway, but I can certainly understand their point of view.

 

[colton]

Once?

How long should that endeavor take? What's a reasonable amount of time to expect one person to investigate your faith without any (significant) confirmation of its truthfulness? Should one ignore ALL other faiths and only seek the truth from the Mormons for their whole lives, even when said search bares no fruit? How does one decide how to allocate their gods-finding quest among all the world's religion?

I certainly can't make that decision for someone else. But I believe just about all religions have some portion of the truth, so it's not an all-or-nothing thing.

If this decision is so random/arbitrary, doesn't it serve as a testament that whichever god/gods made this their plan is/are poor planners/highly inefficient?

Not following you at all. Which decision?

And that's the crux of the whole "one true church"/organized religion thing for me. If this is what God had in mind, he's not terribly bright, and certainly not worthy of worship.

Still not following you. If what is what God had in mind?

I'm all for seeking truth, be it "objective", "spiritual", what have you. Falling in line with a bureaucratic, dogmatic religion seems to run counter to that objective.

And for the third time, not following you--sorry. If there is a truth about God, then wouldn't there necessarily be dogma? And why wouldn't/couldn't God use a bureaucracy to help implement His desires?

 

[MoreFeasts]

I agree. I've stopped reading the SL Tribune website for anything other than sports for the same reason. Its comment sections after articles are cesspools and I'm continually shocked that they tolerate that kind of crap on their site. I've lived literally across the country, from East Coast to West Coast and in between, and I've never seen as much hatred for the Mormons as I have here in Utah.

why would there be hatred for Mormons elsewhere? They have little presence in the rest of the country, and the minority out there will blend in pretty well.

 

[Julie Greengiant]

According to the Wikipedia article, here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_Freemasonry, yes their father was a Freemason. "The father, Joseph Smith, Sr., was a documented member in upstate New York. He was raised to the degree of Master Mason on May 7, 1818 in Ontario Lodge No. 23 of Canandaigua, New York."

But claiming that Hyrum wrote the Book of Mormon doesn't explain anything in my opinion. It maintains all of the same questions about how an ignorant farmer could produce such a document. And it adds new questions--why would Hyrum do this? Why would he continue to support his brother (younger brother, even) Joseph as a prophet for his whole life, to such an extent that he would even die with him? Plus, I don't even think Hyrum was around the whole time as the Book of Mormon was being written down on paper.

I don't mean that he wrote it just that he was the connection

 

[Stoked]

I would like to know why Mormons think those that disagree or even dislike the LDS faith think that they hate or dislike Mormons.

Mormons have a lot in common with homosexuals in our society. Maybe one day they'll realize it.

Probably for the same reasons that homosexuals, or any other group with a history of persecution, think that anything other than total acceptance means hatred.

 

[Stoked]

False equivalence. Homos are actually persecuted where many Mormons have that good old Christian we are persecuted for being righteous Christians complex. The Catholics I know have all gotten over that due to sheer population numbers, thank goodness. They also tend to be even more overbearing on the religious side of things IMO. Some days at work are loooooong listening to that end of the world is nigh at and bull ****.

Mormons have and do face persecution. I find it a valid comparison. Mormons have been where homosexuals are.

 

[Stoked]

why would there be hatred for Mormons elsewhere? They have little presence in the rest of the country, and the minority out there will blend in pretty well.

I went to high school in northern Mississippi and I can assure you from first hand experience that they are very noticed and very hated by some. My experience showed me it was far more intense outside Utah than in it.

 

[Gameface]

Mormons have and do face persecution. I find it a valid comparison. Mormons have been where homosexuals are.

Say what?