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Worst Move? Drafting Hayward over George or Burks over Leonard?

i just think if u had to vote its Hayward over George, in hindsight the proper move would have been to trade up from 9 to 3 for favors... ? or 5 for Demarcus, or select George or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbsJpBRAKxI
 
They have Hibbert on Max. They should really bring back West at near Max. On top of all that, George will be demanding Max. The old 3 Max player model is no longer working with the Hard Cap.
West isn't going to get anything close to the max, there is no hard cap, and teams with 3 high salaried players win championships regularly. What are you smoking?

If I were Indy, I'd rather trade George right now, bring back Hayward at a cheaper price, and keep the flexibility going forward. Hibbert & West are really the backbone of that team.
Offensively, I take Hayward, despite his limitations with the ball in his hands (George has similar limitations); George was being retardedly hyped for his offense this postseason. Defensively, however, Indiana would take a pretty big hit swapping George for Hayward. Dude's nasty.
 
Shumpers A/T Ratio is 2/1 he shot 40% from 3 last year, is considerably stronger, and most importantly a beastly on ball defender, hed guard Tony Parker and Russell Westbrook for the Jazz, and or Manu Ginobili

i pointed that out last summer after the sweep, that Shumpert would have been able to defend someone, burks didnt see the floor

100 steals in his rookie season

watch this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1PNrIu2bEU

this isnt your standard highlight video i post, its a sequence of 3 consecutive plays(in the 4th quarter, as a rookie)
 
i just think if u had to vote its Hayward over George, in hindsight the proper move would have been to trade up from 9 to 3 for favors... ? or 5 for Demarcus, or select George or


KOC has said Favors was #1 on his board, not sure I believe it, but at any rate they had nothing to move up with in 2010. Might have been a blessing in disguise, because they also liked Turner and Johnson I'd wager. Imagine giving up the farm for Evan Turner or Wesley Johnson, ouch.
 
Shumpers A/T Ratio is 2/1 he shot 40% from 3 last year, is considerably stronger, and most importantly a beastly on ball defender, hed guard Tony Parker and Russell Westbrook for the Jazz, and or Manu Ginobili
Way to cherry pick. Dude gets 60% of his offense from high point expectancy spot ups and transition, and is still well below league average efficiency overall. From all accounts, he's a good perimeter defender, but so is Kawhi, who also has a strength/length advantage. Kawhi is clearly the superior player to both Burks and Shumpert. It's not close at all, you just happen to watch Shumpert and Burks more, and like most young fans, think your youth is going to explode as soon as a couple small things change.

Kawhi can do it on both ends. Shumpert and Burks are one way players, yet still inferior to Kawhi on the one side of the ball they can play. It's highly unlikely that changes.
 
all i gotta say is youve resorted to putting words in my mouth and being presumptuous... what about, that your argument can be flipped directly on its head by saying you dont know what your talking about because you watch more Leonard and less Shumpert... wow great infoz.

also id love to mention that youd never call me young to my face. =) and uh your old? my visions better??? whats with the passive aggressive shots at me, catch feelings much?

cherry pick... your calling out individual stats no? and youve avoided the main point in my thesis why Shumpert would have been a better pick than Burks... " he would have helped us more the last 2 seasons(and in the playoffs)", you avoid this... why?

please tell me the story of how burks was better the past 2 seasons, and was better for the jazz the past 2 seasons, we wont even take into account that shumpert recovered from major knee surgery and caught up to speed fully
 

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Again with a real coach, and surrounded by Hall of Famers would Burks look a whole lot better on the Spurs?

I bet he would...
 
I like Burks defensive potential. Held opponent PGs to a ridiculously low 11.8 PER. The Jazz gave up 1.05 PPP with him on the floor, 3rd best rating on the team. You Burks haters might be in for a big surprise next year.
 
Leonard isnt a confident player offensively, Shumpert wants to defense the best player and take the last shot, GVC is mistaken
 
cherry pick... your calling out individual stats no? and youve avoided the main point in my thesis why Shumpert would have been a better pick than Burks... " he would have helped us more the last 2 seasons(and in the playoffs)", you avoid this... why?
In a discussion about Burks/Leonard, you said:
you guys are missing the player the jazz should have really drafted over Burks, its clearly Iman Shumpert

This only makes sense if you mean Shumpert would have been a better pick than Kawhi, which is laughable.
 
I like Burks defensive potential. Held opponent PGs to a ridiculously low 11.8 PER. The Jazz gave up 1.05 PPP with him on the floor, 3rd best rating on the team. You Burks haters might be in for a big surprise next year.

BURKS AT PG?!?!

gladiator-thumbs-down.gif
 
In a discussion about Burks/Leonard, you said:

This only makes sense if you mean Shumpert would have been a better pick than Kawhi, which is laughable.

Kawhi leonard is almost invisible on offense

Shumpert wants to shoot the last shot, and defend the best player

q8NrI.gif


is Kahwi superior in transition? NO
better shooter? Shumpert shot 40% from 3

also Kahwi leonard had 3 reps of 225 at the combine, Shumpert had 18...

Shumperts max vert was 42" !!!

Leonards vert was 32"

Leonards wingspan is 5" more... hes 2" taller and has 6½" on him in standing reach, but Leonard is a Wing, Shumpert is a guard. also leonard and burks are about a year younger.
 
I like Burks as a backup PG, frees us up of a roster spot, saves cash, and lets Hayward play more at SG. If you watched, Burks looked good in pick and roll situations with the bigs last year.

i love burks btw, just dont tell me he would have helped the past 2 seasons more than shumpert, thats absurd

id like to add that i noticed burks enjoys and seems to be cognizant of the big's post up position, and i like the entry passes he throws to the post
 
I like Burks defensive potential. Held opponent PGs to a ridiculously low 11.8 PER. The Jazz gave up 1.05 PPP with him on the floor, 3rd best rating on the team. You Burks haters might be in for a big surprise next year.

...and here some of the haters kept going on and on about what a bad defender he was. You know who you are....
 
Kawhi leonard is almost invisible on offense

Shumpert wants to shoot the last shot, and defend the best player
Kawhi averaged 11.9 points per game this season, third on the Spurs (in both the regular season and playoffs, where he's actually upped his average and efficiency), Iman averaged 6.8. Kawhi also routinely defends the opponent's best perimeter player, while playing 30+ minutes per game.

is Kahwi superior in transition? NO
Kawhi got 22.5% of his possessions in transition this season, and averaged a very good 1.27 points per possession on those possessions. Iman got 17.8% of his possessions in transition this season, and averaged a terrible 0.94 PPP in transition (league average was 1.13 PPP in transition). How is Iman the better transition player?

better shooter? Shumpert shot 40% from 3
Kawhi's still been better over his two year career from the 3, and is far more efficient overall. We'll see what happens next season.

also Kahwi leonard had 3 reps of 225 at the combine, Shumpert had 18...

Shumperts max vert was 42" !!!

Leonards vert was 32"

Leonards wingspan is 5" more... hes 2" taller and has 6½" on him in standing reach, but Leonard is a Wing, Shumpert is a guard.
Who cares? Kawhi's the better basketball player.


also leonard and burks are about a year younger.
Which means there should be more potential for growth. Would you really rather have Iman Shumpert than Kawhi Leonard?
 
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I haven't read the entire thread, so this might already been noted.

How many people here actually believe that Ty would have given Leonard the playing time that Pops gives him or utilized him as effectively as Pop uses him? Given Ty's coaching patterns, I'm quite certain that he would have buried Leonard on the bench behind some mediocre veteran, and when he did play, would not have found a way to draw on his strengths.

George is a potentially other matter, though I still tend to believe that under Ty, George would have been under utilized and not given the minutes he needed or deserved. I mean look at Hayward, who was clearly (and it wasn't even close) a better player in nearly every facet of the game compared to Marvin and Foye (starting SF and SG) and yet Hayward's minutes per game actually fell from 2011-2012 to 2012-2-13, while the aforementioned played heavy minutes nearly the entire year. How many people here doubt that Pops would have found a better way to utilize Burks than Corbin has so far, or that Vogel at Indiana would have given Hayward more minutes and utilized him better than Corbin has?

It's hard to compare how good players are when one set plays with clearly superior coaching, better game planning/management, and system, while the other players are hampered by an inferior coach/game plan & management/system.
 
I haven't read the entire thread, so this might already been noted.

How many people here actually believe that Ty would have given Leonard the playing time that Pops gives him or utilized him as effectively as Pop uses him? Given Ty's coaching patterns, I'm quite certain that he would have buried Leonard on the bench behind some mediocre veteran, and when he did play, would not have found a way to draw on his strengths.

George is a potentially other matter, though I still tend to believe that under Ty, George would have been under utilized and not given the minutes he needed or deserved. I mean look at Hayward, who was clearly (and it wasn't even close) a better player in nearly every facet of the game compared to Marvin and Foye (starting SF and SG) and yet Hayward's minutes per game actually fell from 2011-2012 to 2012-2-13, while the aforementioned played heavy minutes nearly the entire year. How many people here doubt that Pops would have found a better way to utilize Burks than Corbin has so far, or that Vogel at Indiana would have given Hayward more minutes and utilized him better than Corbin has?

It's hard to compare how good players are when one set plays with clearly superior coaching, better game planning/management, and system, while the other players are hampered by an inferior coach/game plan & management/system.

/thread
 
Kawhi averaged 11.9 points per game this season, third on the Spurs (in both the regular season and playoffs, where he's actually upped his average and efficiency), Iman averaged 6.8. Kawhi also routinely defends the opponent's best perimeter player, while playing 30+ minutes per game.
Kawhi got 22.5% of his possessions in transition this season, and averaged a very good 1.27 points per possession on those possessions. Iman got 17.8% of his possessions in transition this season, and averaged a terrible 0.94 PPP in transition (league average was 1.13 PPP in transition). How is Iman the better transition player?
Kawhi's still been better over his two year career from the 3, and is far more efficient overall. We'll see what happens next season.
Who cares? Kawhi's the better basketball player.
Which means there should be more potential for growth. Would you really rather have Iman Shumpert than Kawhi Leonard?

Yes. He Defends Guards, specifically Lead Guards better, Kahwi Leonard Defends guards well but he cant guard D. Rose like Shumpert can...
 
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