Is Jazz that bad?

[spycam1]

Remember how excited we were for the team to suck and then we watched Trey fall on his face in summer league and we all gasp?

It's gonna be ugly and I don't think I or most everyone else is really ready to watch that. I think we fantasize about a low number of wins but definitely don't fantasize about watching the team miss shots, turn the ball over, lose their man on D, pick up tons of early fouls, look lost and confused, get embarrassed by middle of the pack teams game after game...

I don't think this team is going to be good. Not because we don't have the pieces to be good but because we're just not there yet. Get ready for summer league x1000.

I personally won't have a hard time watching. Seriously. I'm going to be drooling over every flash of potential I see. Every turnover and brick is going to send the thought of Wiggins and Jabari through my mind. I can't wait.

 

[JGolds]

I personally won't have a hard time watching. Seriously. I'm going to be drooling over every flash of potential I see. Every turnover and brick is going to send the thought of Wiggins and Jabari through my mind. I can't wait.

You say that now. but i will not be suprised even a little if by mid season we are tired of looking at flashes of greatness and just want it all to be put together and stop loosing the close ones.
"winners aren winners beacuse they love to win, its because the hate to loose"

 

[candrew]

I really think we're undervaluing these players ATM. The discussion, and discovery, all last season was whether the youngins had become better than the vets, and it was hard to make any real distinction by season's end.

Last season The Jazz had a starting caliber 4/5 playing for the entire 48 minutes at each of those positions - no other team in the league had that luxury and they managed to win 43 games. I'm not undervaluing Favors/Kanter, I'm acknowledging the fact that the depth is no longer there: I don't think Evans can be counted on every night for minutes, Biedrens is a joke and Gobert is an unknown facing foot surgery (supposedly minor but who knows for sure)

I have 40 wins as a possiblity as well; but they're going to need plenty of help elsewhere that they didn't get last season.

 

[HipHopAnonymous]

The good news is Corbin is worth 10 losses a year at least.

 

[mellow]

There is more to judging ability than age. Post up a list of the actual Cavs team that year and let's compare players. Did they consist of a starting five as talented as ours?

From https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2003.html -- a great place to visit for all your NBA stats.

RosterNo. Player Pos Ht Wt Birth Date Exp College
1 Carlos Boozer PF 6-9 258 November 20, 1981 R Duke University
3 Tierre Brown PG 6-2 189 June 3, 1979 1 McNeese State University
12 Bimbo Coles PG 6-1 180 April 22, 1968 12 Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
31 Ricky Davis SG 6-6 195 September 23, 1979 4 University of Iowa
52 DeSagana Diop PF 7-0 300 January 30, 1982 1
32 Tyrone Hill PF 6-9 240 March 19, 1968 12 Xavier University
11 Zydrunas Ilgauskas C 7-3 238 June 5, 1975 4
33 Jumaine Jones SF 6-8 218 February 10, 1979 3 University of Georgia
4 Chris Mihm C 7-0 265 July 16, 1979 2 University of Texas at Austin
21 Darius Miles SF 6-9 210 October 9, 1981 2
10 Milt Palacio PG 6-3 195 February 7, 1978 3 Colorado State University
17 Smush Parker PG 6-4 190 June 1, 1981 R Fordham University
13 Michael Stewart PF 6-10 230 April 25, 1975 5 University of California
2 Dajuan Wagner SG 6-2 200 February 4, 1983 R University of Memphis


Alot of similarity there. Rookie Smush Parker and young Milt Palacio combined to play over 3000 minutes (%78 of all pg minutes) at pg. And to me that is the largest determing factor.

For the rest-- Ilgauskus and Boozer compares to Favors and Turkey. Ricky Davis is Alec Burks. Hayward is Jumaine Jones and Gobert can be Desagna Diop. Jazz are still in need of a Chris Mihm, DeJuan Wagner and a Darius Miles.

 

[franklin]

Last season The Jazz had a starting caliber 4/5 playing for the entire 48 minutes at each of those positions - no other team in the league had that luxury and they managed to win 43 games. I'm not undervaluing Favors/Kanter, I'm acknowledging the fact that the depth is no longer there: I don't think Evans can be counted on every night for minutes, Biedrens is a joke and Gobert is an unknown facing foot surgery (supposedly minor but who knows for sure)

I have 40 wins as a possiblity as well; but they're going to need plenty of help elsewhere that they didn't get last season.

Good point on the depth, of course. I was agreeing more with Dutch re: the starting unit.

I'm also being overly optimistic about not having Chucking Mo Williams anymore, and Earl n Jamaal for other reasons. That position was trash last season, and though not an improvement yet, gives me hope that consistent production and lack of hero ball will up the wins column a bit more than the bottom dwelling team some are seeing.

 

[gandalfe]

Alrighhtt, we can throw in Monk, Mingus, and Dizzie. I spose The Herb should be here too.

Far too many good Jazz musicians, obvs

Sonny Rollins, ****. And I (unlike Miles) am a big fan of Chet Baker.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Also it's "Are The Jazz That Bad?".

 

[Ellipse]

We may have the worst bench of any team all time. Even with that bench and a potentially good starting unit we will struggle

Compare the roster of teh 2012-13 Bobcats to ours this year

Utah
Burke
Burks
Hayward
Favors
Kanter
Lucas III
Rush
Biendris
Jefferson
Evans
Gobert
McNeal

Bobcats
Walker
Gordon
MKG
Henderson
Mullens
T. Thomas
Biyombo
Diop
Haywood
Adrien
McRoberts
Sessions
Pargo
Taylor
Williams

They play in the East, we play in the West (Better Division) - I honestly don't see us breaking 30 wins!

We don't need to play our entire bench. Once upon a time, winning teams only played 8 players -- that's a 3-man rotation at the 4/5, a 3-man rotation at the 2/3, and 2 point guards. We're solid at the 4/5, ok at the 2/3, and inexperienced at the point. To me, our wins will be dictated by Burke's learning curve: a steep curve will get us 42 wins, an average curve will get us 34 wins, and a slow curve will get us 30 wins. Hell, starting Burks at the point will get us 32 wins, assuming Rush isn't a total bust.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

wow... haha. hadn't looked at this until now. Burks is the only one who can score in that lineup.

Lucas can pop the 3 though.

 

[♪alt13]

We don't need to play our entire bench. Once upon a time, winning teams only played 8 players -- that's a 3-man rotation at the 4/5, a 3-man rotation at the 2/3, and 2 point guards. We're solid at the 4/5, ok at the 2/3, and inexperienced at the point. To me, our wins will be dictated by Burke's learning curve: a steep curve will get us 42 wins, an average curve will get us 34 wins, and a slow curve will get us 30 wins. Hell, starting Burks at the point will get us 32 wins, assuming Rush isn't a total bust.

We are not "solid" at 4/5. When either df or ek sit the other can expect a relentless double team.

If and when any of our starters miss games we will not win until they get back. Jazz will not be a .500 team.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

Jazz that bad?

I'll admit, they prolly ain't gon be that good.. but they ain't BAAAAAHHHHHD either.

 

[Ellipse]

We are not "solid" at 4/5. When either df or ek sit the other can expect a relentless double team.

If and when any of our starters miss games we will not win until they get back. Jazz will not be a .500 team.

No one can predict injuries and the only way the Jazz are a .500 team is if Burke is an exceptionally quick learner. And as for double teams, does anyone expect Enes or Favors to be worse at passing out of the double than Al?

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

Gobert is an unknown facing foot surgery (supposedly minor but who knows for sure)

While I agree he is an unknown as well as most if not all of the Jazz players and how they will be able to handle this new role and it being "their" team now but one thing that has been positively reported is the surgery is just an ingrown toe nail (will save you reposting the nasty pic of his big toe) and so that is nothing major that will affect this season at all (baring some unforeseen complications/infections).

For me I think some people focused to much on the weaknesses of the starters last year and only focused on the strengths of the "core4". Now I am hopeful that they can grow into what we all hope they can which I think the ceilings on them is to be a #2 option or #3 option on a contending team and all play good to very good defense but there will be growing pains and they wont be those complete and consistent players overnight this season.

I'll try to treat this season like I did the after S&M retired and not have any specific expectations with wins and losses just exciting and hard nosed effort and hopefully by the end of the season will see progression and know what type of players the Jazz will have to work with.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Also it's "Are The Jazz That Bad?".

Actually, it can go either way, depending on whether you mean the Jazz organization (singular) or the team as a collective group (plural).

 

[UGLI baby]

Actually, it can go either way, depending on whether you mean the Jazz organization (singular) or the team as a collective group (plural).

I will stab anyone in the throat who says some bull **** like "the jazz is my favorite team in the league" and then tries to explain why that is proper grammar.



dat jazzfanz.com mobile app doe

 

[The Fresh Prince]

Jazz That Bad sounds like some cheap 80's Hair Metal band.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I will stab anyone in the throat who says some bull **** like "the jazz is my favorite team in the league" and then tries to explain why that is proper grammar.



dat jazzfanz.com mobile app doe

With Dennis Lindsey aboard, the Jazz is a better organization.
The Jazz are a better team with Lindsey making personnel decisions.


I say we just go with Ebonics. You be happy now?

 

[UGLI baby]

With Dennis Lindsey aboard, the Jazz is a better organization.
The Jazz are a better team with Lindsey making personnel decisions.


I say we just go with Ebonics. You be happy now?

I don't even know what you're saying but you're venturing into throat stabbing territory.

dat jazzfanz.com mobile app doe

 

[The Fresh Prince]

I don't even know what you're saying but you're venturing into throat stabbing territory.

dat jazzfanz.com mobile app doe

We don't need to start violence.

Just need to Pow up and keep it trill.