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Reading the Tea Leaves

PKM said:
I may make this a several part post so as not to lose the attention of those that don't like reading posts with multiple sentences.

Anyway, call it more of a gut feel, but I am getting a feel for who stays, who goes, what we do in the draft, trades, and FA.
Wow.. we have a brazillian options in front of us.

So I'm going to skip to the very end and over the coming days will explain why I feel the way I do.

Who stays;
Burke
Hayward
Rush
Kanter
Gobert
Harris

Favors and Burks get traded.
Between those trades, the available cap space/FA, and the draft, we pick up;
1) veteran stud PG (trade or FA)
2) defensive center (gsw pick netting Embiid or WCS - or from trade/FA)
3) A versatile scoring forward with our own pick (Randle or Parker)

Ty fired toward end of season or off season.

I know this post will be replied to with much vitriol.. it's okay. I have thick skin.. say what you mean and let's have some healthy debate and figure this out. Then we can look back and see how well we, collectively, saw the strategy.
(Again, I'll defend my thoughts as to how I arrived at the above predictions shortly.)
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Actually PKM, I agree with most of your post. So perhaps the Jazz signed Favors to trade him. At first it doesn't make sense but after thinking about it, I think a team would want a young defensive young player who is locked in at a reasonable price.

I would trade Favors over Kanter simply because Kanter can score. If the Jazz were able to get WCS or Embiid losing Favors would n't matter. Besides Kanter is a PF and should not be playing C. Hopefully Gobert comes back with some muscle and weight to add to our center position.

Jazz draft our wing of the future (Parker/Wiggins)

I don't see why the Jazz would keep Harris or Rush. Harris is a Ty guy and Rush isn't the player he was and unless he drops 25 lbs and starts making 3 pts I don't see him being here. He is a free agent so perhaps you get him cheap but their is still some risk in bringing him back.

I agree if I were trading two of the core. Right now it would be Favors and Burks. I would even consider trading Burke if the Jazz can get back a proven PG.

I think it would be kind of slimy to not bring Ty back as the coach but I could see it happening. Right now I think there is a 20-30 percent chance Ty is back. Perhaps they could give him a position in the organization for his loyalty. I don't know. I don't think Ty is the right coach but I like him as a person.

Nice job PKM
 
Jazzfan0124 said:
I think we need a coach who can just teach the players the fundamentals of the game. Favors attacking the rim, Burks not making boneheaded passes, Kanter boxing out, etc.

Burke led his team to a national championship, so I actually think that from a pure leadership role he'll be fine. Tutoring the players I'll leave up to coaching.

I'm on my IPod, at work. So can't really comment on FA's without a list in front of me. But I just asked a question in the draft thread, whoever that player is, is who I want with the GS pick.

I would spend most of our cap space on keeping the team together.
Click to expand...

I wish that were true.
 
cowhide said:
Actually PKM, I agree with most you say. So perhaps the Jazz signed Favors to trade him. At first it doesn't make sense but after thinking about it, I think a team would want a young defensive young player who is locked in at a reasonable price.

I would trade Favors over Kanter simply because Kanter can score. If the Jazz were able to get WCS or Embiid losing Favors would n't matter. Besides Kanter is a PF and should not be playing C. Hopefully Gobert comes back with some muscle and weight to add to our center position.

Jazz draft our wing of the future (Parker/Wiggins)

I don't see why the Jazz would keep Harris or Rush. Harris is a Ty guy and Rush isn't the player he was and unless he drops 25 lbs and starts making 3 pts I don't see him being here. He is a free agent so perhaps you get him cheap but their is still some risk in bringing him back.

I agree if I were trading two of the core. Right now it would be Favors and Burks. I would even consider trading Burke if the Jazz can get back a proven PG.

Nice job PKM
Click to expand...

Thanks.
Only reason I said Harris is for roster filler with a guy that is cheap, brings energy, a good practice guy (I bet), and has shown some defensive potential for an end of the bench guy.

Reason Rush is IF he can come back and be a perimeter threat and defensive specialist.. he has great value.
 
PKM said:
Thanks.
Only reason I said Harris is for roster filler with a guy that is cheap, brings energy, a good practice guy (I bet), and has shown some defensive potential for an end of the bench guy.

Reason Rush is IF he can come back and be a perimeter threat and defensive specialist.. he has great value...
Click to expand...

...for a playoff contender.
 
davidbenoit said:
My more conservative 2 cents:

Burks is the only one with the potential to get traded. The jazz value consistency (and now defense) more than most teams and won't trade a defensive minded Favors and his now reasonable contract. I even see a Hayward sign and trade more likely than a Favors trade.

The core is intact. If any trade is going to happen it's going to be through continued asset collection (picks) and filler sent to teams looking to rebuild.
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Favors becomes expendable if Gobert gains weight and improves his game. He is actually a center or if the Jazz draft a center in 2014. The problem with Favors is he too is a PF. We have two PFs with no center that is ready to be a starter. The fact that you said Favors is signed to a reasonable contract makes it more likely he will be traded if the Jazz are looking to trade one of the PFs. Kanter will want a big contract so many teams might be afraid to trade for him a year before he becomes a FA.
 
My worry about Embiid is he might just play himself into the top 8 because he will get noticed a lot with everyone paying attention to Wiggins. I worry about the same with James Young.
 
[size/HUGE] fixed [/size];694708 said:
O_O

I'm listening...


For the record, I'm in total support of trading favors if:

1. The haul is good
2. He proves to be a mostly one-dimensional player
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To be clear, I like Favors.

I just see a couple guys coming in that can be gotten cheaper with more upside.. and we can only bank so many $10MM+ guys. That's not to say that I see Favors as the least desirable player of the core, but rather (at this moment) the easiest and cheapest to replace.
 
cowhide said:
My worry about Embiid is he might just play himself into the top 8 because he will get noticed a lot with everyone paying attention to Wiggins. I worry about the same with James Young.
Click to expand...

No need to worry. Every single scout and NBA brass knows of both of them very well, already.
 
cowhide said:
Favors becomes expendable if Gobert gains weight and improves his game. He is actually a center or if the Jazz a center in the draft with GS pick who can give the same defense as Favors. The problem with Favors is he too is a PF. We have two PFs with no center that is ready to be a starter. The fact that you said Favors is signed to a reasonable contract makes it more likely he will be traded. Kanter will want a big contract so many teams might be afraid to trade for him a year before he because a FA.
Click to expand...

Players take time to develop. The Jazz want this to be a quick rebuild and swapping Favors for an inexperienced replacement certainly won't expedite the process.
Gobert would the 12th man on any of the 16 playoff teams this year. So I don't see him making Favors expendable any time soon.
You might be right about Favors' contract making him more tradeable. But I don't see us taking a big man in the draft to replace him.
 
davidbenoit said:
Players take time to develop. The Jazz want this to be a quick rebuild and swapping Favors for an inexperienced replacement certainly won't expedite the process.
Gobert would the 12th man on any of the 16 playoff teams this year. So I don't see him making Favors expendable any time soon.
You might be right about Favors' contract making him more tradeable. But I don't see us taking a big man in the draft to replace him.
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Good points.
I'm just not overly convinced Favors will get any better than he is right now.
 
I can't see Ty getting fired during this season-- but man, I hated last night.





I have spent most of the past few years defending Ty, and giving him a chance to figure things out-- but last night was just embarrassing.



I know that one might argue that it's the players who are lacking effort-- which is true. Also, the calls of "WE NEED TO INSTL SLON OFFENCE" hold little merit.


But when I see an entire team not give a ****, and see players who lack confidence, I chalk it up to a fault in coaching.



Ty is by all accounts a players-coach, and I'm sure his trust, and friendships with his players go a long way. But it all comes down to our players lacking motivation; our players lacking initiative to execute initial offensive sets with precision (resulting in running late shot-clock pick and rolls)-- and it really points to a lack of discipline.
 
dalamon said:
I can't see Ty getting fired during this season-- but man, I hated last night.





I have spent most of the past few years defending Ty, and giving him a chance to figure things out-- but last night was just embarrassing.



I know that one might argue that it's the players who are lacking effort-- which is true. Also, the calls of "WE NEED TO INSTL SLON OFFENCE" hold little merit.


But when I see an entire team not give a ****, and see players who lack confidence, I chalk it up to a fault in coaching.



Ty is by all accounts a players-coach, and I'm sure his trust, and friendships with his players go a long way. But it all comes down to our players lacking motivation; our players lacking initiative to execute initial offensive sets with precision (resulting in running late shot-clock pick and rolls)-- and it really points to a lack of discipline.
Click to expand...

Good post.

However, "player's coach" carries wide-ranging definitions. I don't see Ty as a player's coach in the sense I call it. I see him as more of a blend into the team kind of guy.

By my definition (doesn't make it right, I know) a player's-first-coach is a guy that demands everything from his players, works as hard as he asks them to work, and if they give it their all.. he goes to bat for them against anyone.. even at his own demise. If the team sees all of this, it builds trust in the coach and, even more importantly, team chemistry.
 
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