What type of asset is Hayward?

[akirac73]

I would explain it as the more of the scoring burden he takes on, the less efficient he gets. Locke's analysis emphasizes that his efficiency has really dropped this year (and you imply also that as he shoots more, he gets less efficient), so if there is indeed an inverse relationship, doesn't it follow that if you reduce his role/burden, his efficiency will also improve?

If you look at Hayward's career numbers his minutes played and field goal attempts have a direct correlation, both have increased each season. Based on this observation (and knowing that it's an inverse relationship to his FG%), is it fair to say that if we reduce Haywards minutes his FG% should improve? I would think so.

My next question: Is player that needs his minutes limited/controlled in order to be an better player worth a $10M-$12M+ per year contract? Just throwing that out there...

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

If you look at Hayward's career numbers his minutes played and field goal attempts have a direct correlation, both have increased each season. Based on this observation (and knowing that it's an inverse relationship to his FG%), is it fair to say that if we reduce Haywards minutes his FG% should improve? I would think so.

My next question: Is player that needs his minutes limited/controlled in order to be an better player worth a $10M-$12M+ per year contract? Just throwing that out there...

If he can be reasonably efficient and give us 16-5-5, then yes in approx $10m range, not in $12 m range, which I don't think he'll get in any case.

 

[cowhide]

I believe a player like Gordon is worth about $7 million and I would go as high as 8.5 million but he was asking over 12 million. He wanted a better deal than Favors because he believed he was a number 1 option. Well he didn't show it so now I go to the table and tell him that we think you can be a big part of this team as a 2nd or 3rd option and we want to pay you as a 2nd or 3rd option. I am sure that Gordon is going to test the market that is why he became a free agent. At this point unless he says no way am I a 2nd or 3rd option and I want to be paid as a number 1 guy, then you say bring us an offer and we will let you know if we will match it. If the offer is ridiculous then we say either try to make a trade or let him go.

 

[green]

I'm really starting to become a big cowhide fan.

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

I'm really starting to become a big cowhide fan.

you realize that many people have been saying almost the exact same thing since last November, right? Or were you too busy taking copious rolls in the snow to read those posts?

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

I believe a player like Gordon is worth about $7 million and I would go as high as 8.5 million but he was asking over 12 million. He wanted a better deal than Favors because he believed he was a number 1 option. Well he didn't show it so now I go to the table and tell him that we think you can be a big part of this team as a 2nd or 3rd option and we want to pay you as a 2nd or 3rd option. I am sure that Gordon is going to test the market that is why he became a free agent. At this point unless he says no way am I a 2nd or 3rd option and I want to be paid as a number 1 guy, then you say bring us an offer and we will let you know if we will match it. If the offer is ridiculous then we say either try to make a trade or let him go.

even with all my frustrations this year, I'd still go to $10M/yr for Gordon.

 

[ijazz]

even with all my frustrations this year, I'd still go to $10M/yr for Gordon.

I agree. He IS worth $10 MM.

Someone will offer $12MM. Real curious if that happens if we match

 

[JoelHodgeJr]

First of all, the exact same was said in 04. I was on this board when folks admitted that AK47 wasn't that great but said that there just wasn't anybody as good/as young. That was a huge mistake.

Where did Wes Matthews come from? Where did Paul Millsap come from? Where did Paul George come from?

There are plenty of good SF/SGs to be had. We could draft in the mid first round and find a player better than Hayward. The boy from Michigan and the Young from UK for starters. I think Early could be in that discussion as well.

The point is, Hayward is extremely replaceable. SVG's comments were a great barometer for Hayward's value no matter what the Hayward homers on this board think. Of course, there will always be some retarded franchise out there willing to shell out too much money for his services. I just hope that franchise isn't us.

Finally, draft picks are gold. You can't just trade Hayward away for a 1st rounder. And, Hayward's game no longer fits this team. We have 2 low post bigs. We need to surround them with shooters. If we want to keep Hayward then we need to unload either Favors or kanter. That's the truth. Burks you keep, he is the 1 player on this team who can create, score, and get to the line. Sorry Hayward homers, your boy doesn't do that

Cry me a river, bash me, flame me, just as you did 10 years ago ago. I've seen more Bball that you've dreamed and know a thing or two about this sport.

The problem with your argument is that even though AK was overpaid he didn't hurt us. After his massive contract we were still able to sign Boozer and Okur creating our best team since the StockMalone days.

AK was our best wing and interior defender and our second best playmaker. Sure he didn't work out like we hoped, but that's life. All in all AK helped our team not hurt it.

Also you shouldn't compare AK to Hayward they are completely different players.

Sent from the JazzFanz app

 

[green]

AK did hurt us. Big time. Imagine if we had DWill, Boozer, Memo and Bell and another Bell level player instead of AK. Maybe two more. We win the title at least once.

 

[Ellipse]

I would explain it as the more of the scoring burden he takes on, the less efficient he gets. Locke's analysis emphasizes that his efficiency has really dropped this year (and you imply also that as he shoots more, he gets less efficient), so if there is indeed an inverse relationship, doesn't it follow that if you reduce his role/burden, his efficiency will also improve?

And THIS is justification for paying him 8 figures?????? I sure wish that would work for me:

"Hey boss, I've been so overworked that I missed 3 deadlines and totally screwed up a report. But what the hell, double my salary and hire me an assistant and I promise I will give you your money's worth next year."

 

[billyshelby]

As to the OP, Hayward IS a major trade asset. He's worth a lot to any team that wants the right to match a contract as an RFA, presumably a team with the cap space or resources to scare away bidders.

As to what Hayward is worth, he's not as good as Leonard for example. And any contracts signed under the old CBA like Batum shouldn't be relevant either. 10 should be the absolute max for him.

Whatever Lindsey does with this situation will say everything about his worth as a GM.

 

[GVC]

As to the OP, Hayward IS a major trade asset. He's worth a lot to any team that wants the right to match a contract as an RFA, presumably a team with the cap space or resources to scare away bidders.

He can't be traded.

 

[Game6Conley]

He can't be traded.

how is his situation different from Tyreke Evans last year?

 

[Game6Conley]

or Nic Batum the year before?

 

[GVC]

how is his situation different from Tyreke Evans last year?

What? They weren't traded.

Tyreke was involved in a sign-and-trade, which can still happen with Gordo. At that point, however, a team couldn't take advantage of his restricted free agency, as he'd already be signed. Billy was saying that Gordo has value because a team trading for him would be trading for a restricted free agent, but the Jazz can only trade him in a sign-and-trade after the July moratorium, when Gordo will be a free agent. The only team that will be able to "scare away bidders" is the Jazz.

2 useful links:
https://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q99
https://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q102

From the first:

In addition, teams cannot trade players under the following circumstances:...

• When the trade deadline has passed. Teams are free to make trades again once their season has ended[SUP]3[/SUP], but cannot trade players whose contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO.

So...Gordo can only be traded in a sign-and-trade on or after July 10, when he'll be a free agent (likely restricted).

 

[Game6Conley]

after Tyreke's 4th season he signed a 44mil contract with the Pelicans, the kings didnt match, and still managed to get back Greivis Vaszquez

after his 4th season Batum signed a 46mil contract with Minnesota, the Blazers matched, so the Twolves offered packages of 1st rounders and Derrick Williams

what excludes Gordon from scenarios like these?

 

[b_line]

after Tyreke's 4th season he signed a 44mil contract with the Pelicans, the kings didnt match, and still managed to get back Greivis Vaszquez

after his 4th season Batum signed a 46mil contract with Minnesota, the Blazers matched, so the Twolves offered packages of 1st rounders and Derrick Williams

what excludes Gordon from scenarios like these?

This is exactly the type of scenario he will be in.

 

[GVC]

after Tyreke's 4th season he signed a 44mil contract with the Pelicans, the kings didnt match, and still managed to get back Greivis Vaszquez

after his 4th season Batum signed a 46mil contract with Minnesota, the Blazers matched, so the Twolves offered packages of 1st rounders and Derrick Williams

what excludes Gordon from scenarios like these?

As I said, Gordo can be traded in a sign-and-trade. Billy was talking about the Jazz trading him before he becomes a free agent, so that the team acquiring him could match any offer for him once he becomes a restricted free agent. That's not possible.

Also, Tyreke did not sign a contract with the Pelicans. He was involved in a sign-and-trade between the Kings and Pelicans.

Your story about Batum doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Had the Blazers already matched, the T-Wolves couldn't then offer anything, as Batum would be under contract and ineligible to be traded for 3 months.

 

[da ThRONe]

after Tyreke's 4th season he signed a 44mil contract with the Pelicans, the kings didnt match, and still managed to get back Greivis Vaszquez

after his 4th season Batum signed a 46mil contract with Minnesota, the Blazers matched, so the Twolves offered packages of 1st rounders and Derrick Williams

what excludes Gordon from scenarios like these?

A player can only be signed and traded if the current team doesn't match the offer sheet.

Hayward what have had to been traded before the deadline in order for a team to acquire his RFA rights. Now any team that trades for Gordon has to do so as a sign and trade. Just like we did trading for Tyreke Evans and Ryan Anderson.

 

[GVC]

A player can only be signed and traded if the current team doesn't match the offer sheet.

If a player has signed an offer sheet, he can't be traded. Period.

If the offer sheet is matched, the player stays with his old team under the terms in the offer sheet, and the player can't be traded for 3 months. If the offer sheet is not matched, the offer sheet becomes the player's new contract, and the player can't be traded for 3 months.