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DutchJazzer said:
that just means you inheritted the weakness gene, the "i gotta make an excuse for my weakness" gene
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You're naive. Who are you to say an alcoholic with a terrible time controlling his problem is weaker minded than someone without the problem in the first place. That's like saying someone born without legs is weak because they "achieve" less than you even though they put in much more effort. Many alcoholics are much stronger willed than you. To help this hit home, I'd say that if you were to write a coherent thought then you would be stronger than a genius who scribbled out a sub-par performance, even though it pwned yours.

LogGrad98 said:
I am not arguing that alcoholism is not a disease or that is doesn't have a genetic component. But to compare it to cancer is simply ludicrous. Don't drink. Ever. You will NOT get alcoholism. Cancer and other diseases do not work that way. There are things you can do that make you more susceptible to cancer, but often it just happens. Trust me, I am a cancer survivor (osteosarcoma) and my particular cancer had neither a genetic component nor environmental factors. It is one of the "mistake" cancers, as in rapid cell division resulted in a mistake during mitosis that became cancer. And I have alcoholics in my family. I have seen them both up close and personal. They are not even close to the same.
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I equated it to cancer because both are problems of your own body rather than being caused by another organism. That's all. Please keep in mind the audience my post was written to. If I were responding to you then I probably would not have felt it necessary to include an example.
 
*Edit*^^ Unfortunately, all aren't born and raised with the holy notion of never drinking, ever. In some cultures it's not uncommon for a child to be fed children wine. There are also parents who encourage underage drinking. Are you throwing those with what you apparently consider a sub-par upbringing under the bus? No excuse, no matter what is it?
 
franklin said:
*Edit*^^ Unfortunately, all aren't born and raised with the holy notion of never drinking, ever. In some cultures it's not uncommon for a child to be fed children wine. There are also parents who encourage underage drinking. Are you throwing those with what you apparently consider a sub-par upbringing under the bus? No excuse, no matter what is it?
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yes, we jews drink wine on the sabath. since i remember i have been drinking alcohol once a week.
anyways. still does not make it a disease.

studies have shown it is not a dissease

medical professionals and American culture lovingly embraced the disease concept and quickly applied it to every possible deviant behavior from alcohol abuse to you name it.

Research has shown that alcoholism is a choice, not a disease, and stripping alcohol abusers of their choice, by applying the disease concept, is a threat to the health of the individual.(not to mention a threath to my kids when they are old enough to play outside. some drunk driver might kill them)
 
also note
the disease excuse removes repsonsiobilty from the alcoholic. as a disease cannot be healed by will, so adding the disease label transfers the responsibility from the alcoholic to others. so they become the victims, and sooner ot later they take on that role.
 
also if alcoholism is a dissease.
1.shouldnt every DUI conviction, be overturned since they have no control over their disease
2.every "vehicular manslaughter/vehicular homocide while under influence" conviction be overturned and those cons be released?

since they are not repsonsible
 
DutchJazzer said:
also if alcoholism is a dissease.
1.shouldnt every DUI conviction, be overturned since they have no control over their disease
2.every "vehicular manslaughter/vehicular homocide while under influence" conviction be overturned and those cons be released?

since they are not repsonsible
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Now you're being an idiot.
 
franklin said:
*Edit*^^ Unfortunately, all aren't born and raised with the holy notion of never drinking, ever. In some cultures it's not uncommon for a child to be fed children wine. There are also parents who encourage underage drinking. Are you throwing those with what you apparently consider a sub-par upbringing under the bus? No excuse, no matter what is it?
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also franklin the first 2 steps of AA (the only treatmen to alcholism)
1.We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.(weak cant do anything about)
2.Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.(again weak and powerless)

so franklin i demand you take away all the neg rep you gave me about alcholism
 
franklin said:
*Edit*^^ Unfortunately, all aren't born and raised with the holy notion of never drinking, ever. In some cultures it's not uncommon for a child to be fed children wine. There are also parents who encourage underage drinking. Are you throwing those with what you apparently consider a sub-par upbringing under the bus? No excuse, no matter what is it?
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I hope you are not confusing my comment with Dutch's. I was simply pointing out that alcoholism is within the realm of controllable diseases. Of course environtmental factors play into it, but just for the sake of separating the two, alcoholism is completely avoidable (possible) but often the environment makes it very difficult to avoid (probable). In all cases it is possible to avoid it, in many cases it is not very probable to avoid it. Like I said, it is an issue for some of my family members. One of them I feel is playing the "excuse" card when he brings it up as a disease, but others are trying to fight it and often losing the fight. No doubt it is destructive and dangerous, but it is not the same as many other diseases in the regard that it is completely avoidable.

As far as the bold above, do not put words in my mouth. I never brought up upbringing in any way shape or form. I simply pointed out that if you never drink, you will never be an alcoholic. That is a simple fact. I do not know why you equated that to something holy or to self-righteousness about upbringing, but I never said it so don't insunuate it for me.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I hope you are not confusing my comment with Dutch's. I was simply pointing out that alcoholism is within the realm of controllable diseases. Of course environtmental factors play into it, but just for the sake of separating the two, alcoholism is completely avoidable (possible) but often the environment makes it very difficult to avoid (probable). In all cases it is possible to avoid it, in many cases it is not very probable to avoid it. Like I said, it is an issue for some of my family members. One of them I feel is playing the "excuse" card when he brings it up as a disease, but others are trying to fight it and often losing the fight. No doubt it is destructive and dangerous, but it is not the same as many other diseases in the regard that it is completely avoidable.

As far as the bold above, do not put words in my mouth. I never brought up upbringing in any way shape or form. I simply pointed out that if you never drink, you will never be an alcoholic. That is a simple fact. I do not know why you equated that to something holy or to self-righteousness about upbringing, but I never said it so don't insunuate it for me.
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i have made a threat to further this discusion to not go to much off topic in this one
 
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