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This season will vindicate Ty Corbin

b_line said:
I never understood the mindless "fire Corbin" crap. I liked it when people would give actual reasons as to why they didn't want to have Corbin around.

I didn't like Corbin for this iteration of the Jazz. These are the reasons I did not like him:

1. The team very clearly was suited to play a much faster game, both on offense and defense, and Corbin tried to slow the game down from the point guard on up to the big men. He wanted to use Favors in the post, where he was not suited well, and Hayward would stand on the wings and watch. Its seemed as though Corbin thought he had a system that would work no matter the personnel. That was not the case. He will probably learn to tailor his system to the players in the future, but he did not do that well in Utah.

2. The preferential treatment of veterans. This is a subject that a lot of people on this board took way overboard. It was a problem, but it was overblown. I didn't mind Marvin. I thought RJ should have played less, and I always thought we should invest more of the time in Favors. It was a problem with Corbin, but the young guys developed well considering the circumstances.

3. Lindsay has a plan for the organization, and it was not clear if Corbin agreed with it. In the NBA, it seems as though the whole organization needs to buy in to the plan of the front office to be successful. GM's need their guy as the coach to lead the team they assemble.
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Isn't this saying I didn't like Ty for x reasons, but I've never understand those people that didn't like him for x reasons?
 
franklin said:
What? No coach in their right mind would have played Gobert much more last season. Combine that with the fact that the team has stank while Gobert has been on the floor this season... you just proved the opposite of what you set out to do.
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You're completely correct. 100%.

It's a long season and while I thnk Mr. Snyder is light years ahead of Corbin, I think I'm going to take a slow and reaosonable approach to this debate.
 
jope said:
I'm not sure i'd call a record of 31W/23L (.575 --> 47 wins full season) "wheels coming off"....
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Somebody check this guy for his Jazz card. I smell an imposter/spy.
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-Hall of fame coach of 20+ years walks out of the middle of the game in the middle of the season.
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-Star player ends up traded.
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-Rebuild begins, despite state of denial.
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-Entire Jazz world turned upside down.
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But yeah, our record wasn't...Are you ****ing kidding me?
 
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NAOS said:
dem wheels fallin' off is Corbin's fault, too.
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jope said:
more or less i think it was the sudden lack of star power, system, respect, and caring among the remaining/new players upon Jerry's and Deron's departures
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ok, I'll beat this dead horse one more time...

don't underestimate the value of team chemistry and comraderie.


I think that was something that's been missing since about 2009/2010 - this is strictly anecdotal, but from several years of following twitter and instagram, it seems there were (and still are) close friendships among D-Will, D-Fish, Ronnie Price, Carlos Boozer, Andre Kirilenko, Kyle Korver and Okur - - and their wives and families are close too. Even being on different teams, they have socialized and even vacationed together over the years.

looks like Deron's wife was sitting with Fisher's wife at last night's Nets/Knicks game

https://instagram.com/p/vH0aWrjQMI/?modal=true

so whether or not you want to say Deron is/was a spoiled brat or coach killer or whatever, I'm not sure that level of friendship and trust among Jazz teammates was around during the years 2010/2013 - - and I think it contributed to the relative success the team had in seasons 2007/2010 - - hopefully it's coming back now...
 
Stifle Tower said:
Who's that famous coach who used to say, "it's just one game?" Ty may yet be vindicated. It's a long way to 25 wins. Besides, is there any doubt Corbin could have had the same kind of internal improvement so many of the players have shown?
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Are you saying that Snyder did not do more developing in 5 weeks than Corbin did in 3 years? Blasphemy!
 
freakazoid said:
Somebody check this guy for his Jazz card. I smell an imposter/spy.
-
-Hall of fame coach of 20+ years walks out of the middle of the game in the middle of the season.
-
-Star player ends up traded.
-
-Rebuild begins, despite state of denial.
-
-Entire Jazz world turned upside down.
-
But yeah, our record wasn't...Are you ****ing kidding me?
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The original statement was that Jerry's coaching may or may not have contributed to the 'wheels calling off'. I never once questioned the after effects of him leaving mid season. Just saying that judging by his coaching alone before he quit, that the team want in shambles... Calm down there ese.
 
jope said:
The original statement was that Jerry's coaching may or may not have contributed to the 'wheels calling off'. I never once questioned the after effects of him leaving mid season. Just saying that judging by his coaching alone before he quit, that the team want in shambles... Calm down there ese.
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Let me see if I get this straight. You think everything was just peachy right up to the moment Jerry quit? The team absolutely imploded, and somehow Jerry had absolutely no responsibility in that, but people constantly want to bring up a season in which Jerry coached us to ok instead of crappy, as if it's some great accomplishment.
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Jerry Sloan was a great coach at a time, and IMO, not only are some people ignoring the half of the story they don't like, they are tarnishing Jerry's legacy by continuing to use a mediocre season as the measuring stick for what kind of a coach he was. Jerry would most likely **** himself laughing, if he knew fans routinely use that particular season as an example of his coaching ability.
 
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jope said:
more or less i think it was the sudden lack of star power, system, respect, and caring among the remaining/new players upon Jerry's and Deron's departures
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freakazoid said:
Let me see if I get this straight. You think everything was just peachy right up to the moment Jerry quit? The team absolutely imploded, and somehow Jerry had absolutely no responsibility in that, but people constantly want to bring up a season in which Jerry coached us to ok instead of crappy, as if it's some great accomplishment.
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Jerry Sloan was a great coach at a time, and IMO, not only are some people ignoring the half of the story they don't like, they are tarnishing Jerry's legacy by continuing to use a mediocre season as the measuring stick for what kind of a coach he was. Jerry would most likely **** himself laughing, if he knew fans routinely use that particular season as an example of his coaching ability.
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he was either ham-strung or hog-tied

or maybe both
 
So wait.. now that Corbin, whom played Richard Jefferson 30 minutes a night is gone we're talking about how he could've been the best coach ever?
 
freakazoid said:
Let me see if I get this straight. You think everything was just peachy right up to the moment Jerry quit? The team absolutely imploded, and somehow Jerry had absolutely no responsibility in that, but people constantly want to bring up a season in which Jerry coached us to ok instead of crappy, as if it's some great accomplishment.
-
Jerry Sloan was a great coach at a time, and IMO, not only are some people ignoring the half of the story they don't like, they are tarnishing Jerry's legacy by continuing to use a mediocre season as the measuring stick for what kind of a coach he was. Jerry would most likely **** himself laughing, if he knew fans routinely use that particular season as an example of his coaching ability.
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Seasons are up and down. . His win percentage when he quit speaks for itself. If you were to average all the win percentages of all the active teams in the league over their existence, the .575 that jerry was at in a 'mediocre' year would still be good for fourth best among franchise averages. That speaks to the testament of jerry, a mediocre season (one that also could've seen the team improve had he stayed, who knows? NBA seasons are volatile) was still 7 wins over 500. I think there was some disappointment, but I would stand behind my reasoning that Jerry's coaching was not to blame for 'wheels falling off'.
 
Surprised it hasn't been mentioned, but that team started out 27-13, with Deron and Millsap carrying an underwhelming supporting cast (Big Al was not fitting in next to Deron at all). The wheels did sorta fall off after that, and the Jazz went 4-10 before Jerry quit. Jerry didn't just walk away from a team lacking talent, he walked away from a team that had started to fall apart (rapidly).
 
GVC said:
Surprised it hasn't been mentioned, but that team started out 27-13, with Deron and Millsap carrying an underwhelming supporting cast (Big Al was not fitting in next to Deron at all). The wheels did sorta fall off after that, and the Jazz went 4-10 before Jerry quit. Jerry didn't just walk away from a team lacking talent, he walked away from a team that had started to fall apart (rapidly).
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Agree. And a huge part of that was the rift between the PG and the coach. I give Ty a complete pass for the end to that horrible season.
 
Jazz Games Started Leaders 2009/10: Carlos Boozer (78), Deron Williams (76), Mehmet Okur (73), Ronnie Brewer (53), Wes Matthews (48)

Jazz Minutes Played Leaders 2009/10: Deron Williams (2802), Carlos Boozer (2673), Paul Millsap (2277), Mehmet Okur (2149), Wes Matthews (2025), Andrei Kirilenko (1681), Ronnie Brewer (1662), CJ Miles (1497), Kyle Korver (952)


The Jazz lost 4 of their 5 most frequent starters, and 5 of their 9 minutes leaders. They effectively swapped Okur and Boozer for Big Al and Francisco Elson (also added a rookie Jeremy Evans), and swapped Brewer, Matthews and Korver for Raja Bell (and Gordon Hayward). The team overperformed to open the season (I think they were also undefeated in preseason), but fell apart when Deron and Millsap started wearing down. It shouldn't have come as any surprise that Deron was frustrated, given the gutting of the team AND Jerry's insistence on trying to force Al to play like Boozer (painful to watch). Even without Sloan's departure and Deron's subsequent trade, that team would have been incredibly lucky to make the playoffs.
 
Quin >>>>>> Ty. You could see it tonight against the Pistons, with Gordo taking over. Q ball is a system that gets him good shots, gets him comfortable, gets him one on ones. Last year as the designated scorer, which he still is, he was constantly double teamed and hassled. That is coaching, the good and the bad.
 
GVC said:
Jazz Games Started Leaders 2009/10: Carlos Boozer (78), Deron Williams (76), Mehmet Okur (73), Ronnie Brewer (53), Wes Matthews (48)

Jazz Minutes Played Leaders 2009/10: Deron Williams (2802), Carlos Boozer (2673), Paul Millsap (2277), Mehmet Okur (2149), Wes Matthews (2025), Andrei Kirilenko (1681), Ronnie Brewer (1662), CJ Miles (1497), Kyle Korver (952)


The Jazz lost 4 of their 5 most frequent starters, and 5 of their 9 minutes leaders. They effectively swapped Okur and Boozer for Big Al and Francisco Elson (also added a rookie Jeremy Evans), and swapped Brewer, Matthews and Korver for Raja Bell (and Gordon Hayward). The team overperformed to open the season (I think they were also undefeated in preseason), but fell apart when Deron and Millsap started wearing down. It shouldn't have come as any surprise that Deron was frustrated, given the gutting of the team AND Jerry's insistence on trying to force Al to play like Boozer (painful to watch). Even without Sloan's departure and Deron's subsequent trade, that team would have been incredibly lucky to make the playoffs.
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^Gets it.
 
jope said:
I would stand behind my reasoning that Jerry's coaching was not to blame for 'wheels falling off'.
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I thought you said the wheels didn't fall off? Anyway, for the sake of argument, which coach would you say was responsible for the team during our 10 of 14 losing streak that led up to Jerry quitting?
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It's not about placing blame. It's about being intellectually honest when giving credit to coaches when they win, as well as when they lose, rather than telling half the story.
 
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freakazoid said:
I thought you said the wheels didn't fall off? Anyway, for the sake of argument, which coach would you say was responsible for the team during our 10 of 14 losing streak that led up to Jerry quitting?
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It's not about placing blame. It's about being intellectually honest when giving credit to coaches when they win, as well as when they lose, rather than telling half the story.
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Streaks, both winning and losing, happen every season. It's a product of the schedule, morale, talent, and yes coaching. I never said jerry was perfect. If he lost 10 of his last 14,then that's pretty brutal, but it also shows how many he must have won at the beginning of the year to still quit 7 games over 500 (27-13 .675 before said losing streak) its a game of streaks. It happens every year. Who knows, we could have finished the year strong or could've flopped the rest of the way. Point is, it's impossible to blame the 'wheels falling off' just on one thing (see one of my previous posts). My original point was that it wasn't Jerry's coaching that made the wheels fall off
 
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