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2011 draft.....

I co-sign any and all saying you don't pass on Irving.

Listen, I like Harris. I think he fits well, I like his penetration, hustle and attitude. But you don't EVER pass on a chance to pair your budding star/freak athlete big man with an elite/lighting quick PG. If Harris is a casuality then so be it, like I said before you then have a very attactive piece to get a wing. Devin Harris is one of the few pieces we have that would bring a quality wing back in a trade anyway.

Again, as I've said before, I'd keep Harris for the first season anyway instead of handing the keys over to a rookie PG anyway.

Every single NBA GM would cream themselves at the thought of having a Favors/Irving pairing for the future of their team. Favors/Barnes and filler? Ehh, not so much.
 
Biggs said:
Did anyone see that Clutch shot by Harrison Barnes last night? Kid would be awesome here.
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Yes, great shot. Still pretty low FG%, but is starting to show his potential. Have Duke game, then ACC t't and NCAA t't to check him out. Sure koc and scouts will be watching closely.
 
Black Falcon?? are you saying we will have an answer for the Black Mamba now??

I think he can play both wing position and has as much potential as anyone in the draft. It's not likely that we get the #1 pick to draft Irving so Barnes will not be a bad pickup at all. In clutch situations like UNC just had and when plays break down, we need someone who can score from outside. Now we basically have no one who can take that last shot after Deron's gone.
 
I'm telling you guys, Hayward is better at taking players off the dribble than Barnes is. I'm just not a very big Barnes fan, I mean, he is a good player but he's more of a jack of all trades. He does things pretty decent, but he's not great at anything. I wouldn't take a top 10 pick on him, he's just not worth it. I just really don't see Barnes being able to play the 2 guard in the NBA....obviously I could be wrong, but I just don't see it.
 
The thing missing from all this Harrison Barnes clutch game winner is he's been terrible from the arc all season but keeps on shooting. Think Chucker Smiles with a closer look and much worse defenders. Yeah he made that shot, but...

The only reason to be impressed is his coach must be seeing something that others are not/can not. He specifically drew that play up for Barnes. It looks genius if it works, but considering he went 8 for 34 in the previous 5 games, pretty damn stupid if he missed again.
 
Zerol said:
Black Falcon?? are you saying we will have an answer for the Black Mamba now??

I think he can play both wing position and has as much potential as anyone in the draft. It's not likely that we get the #1 pick to draft Irving so Barnes will not be a bad pickup at all. In clutch situations like UNC just had and when plays break down, we need someone who can score from outside. Now we basically have no one who can take that last shot after Deron's gone.
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I'm getting my first man crush in this year's draft, and it's def the black falcon! Falcons > Mambas

I'm thinking the same thing you are. Irving won't be coming to us barring a miracle, so I'd rather focus on someone that looks more likely.
It's early in my crush, and everything is hazy.
 
I understand he's had a so so freshman season. Seems like he coming on lately though. Let's see how he plays from here on out.
Not worth a top ten pick? This draft is so weak I don't see how you could say something like that.
The kid is obviously very gifted, and worth a long look.
 
Revolution 9 said:
I understand he's had a so so freshman season. Seems like he coming on lately though. Let's see how he plays from here on out.
Not worth a top ten pick? This draft is so weak I don't see how you could say something like that.
The kid is obviously very gifted, and worth a long look.
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Lets not forget he was the #1 freshman prospect coming into the season. I guess he was supposed to be Kobe or something right out the gate.
 
My hopeful draft situation

Jazz get 3rd pick- Take Derrick Williams
Jazz get 12th pick- Take Alec Burks

Jazz get very athletic and get a SG and SF/PF
 
Would anyone trade the Nets pick if #5-7 for Paul George?
George has been playing some decent ball lately and Pacers might
be interested.
Jazz get player they passed over last year and might wish they had taken.
 
I'm liking Alec Burks less and less, another 2 guard that can't shoot, that's what we need :-0

I would advise against drafting a SG with either lottery pick
 
I've thought a lot about Kyrie Irving that is projected to go #1 in the draft.
He played well in the first 8 games of the season as a freshman.
The teams he played against were either bad teams, or ended up being teams not as good as people thought they were at the beginning of the year.
He shot great, and was a good assist man.

Ok, here's what bugs me.
He is a freshman that only has played in 8 College games total.
He is the exact same size and weight of Nolan Smith, also on the Dukies.
Smith does not have the shooting percentages of Irving, but he also played the whole year which may have some ups and downs, and his percentages are not bad.
Smith averaged 5 more points a game, the same assists, 2 more rebounds, and did this not only against the same teams Irving played against, but also all of the teams in their conference.

I think it's possible that Irving will not be the next John Wall like people think if his numbers were fluky. It is possible Smith will end up being the better point. Unless I am missing something, I am really starting to hope we don't pick Irving even if he's on the board.

I'm saying this knowing full well Coach K put Irving in to start for Duke as a freshman, so he must be good.... but Smith started for them too, so he is no slouch either.
 
JazzSpazz said:
I've thought a lot about Kyrie Irving that is projected to go #1 in the draft.
He played well in the first 8 games of the season as a freshman.
The teams he played against were either bad teams, or ended up being teams not as good as people thought they were at the beginning of the year.
He shot great, and was a good assist man.

Ok, here's what bugs me.
He is a freshman that only has played in 8 College games total.
He is the exact same size and weight of Nolan Smith, also on the Dukies.
Smith does not have the shooting percentages of Irving, but he also played the whole year which may have some ups and downs, and his percentages are not bad.
Smith averaged 5 more points a game, the same assists, 2 more rebounds, and did this not only against the same teams Irving played against, but also all of the teams in their conference.

I think it's possible that Irving will not be the next John Wall like people think if his numbers were fluky. It is possible Smith will end up being the better point. Unless I am missing something, I am really starting to hope we don't pick Irving even if he's on the board.

I'm saying this knowing full well Coach K put Irving in to start for Duke as a freshman, so he must be good.... but Smith started for them too, so he is no slouch either.
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Nolan Smith is a very good college player, but as a pro prospect he's nowhere near the level of Irving. So let's look at some facts here.

- With a senior Final Four MVP Kyle Singler and a senior Nolan Smith returning, Coach K tailored his offense around a true freshman in Kyrie Irving.
- Nolan Smith goes to Kyrie Irving for advice on how to play PG.....a senior off guard is going to a true freshman for advice on playing the point. And lets not forget this senior off guard is very much in the contention for NPOY
- Kyrie Irving shut down a senior All-Big 12 guard in Jacob Pullen in like his 2nd or 3rd game (can't remember which one)
- If you have watched Duke play at all, it is pretty obvious that Kyrie Irving is a much, much better PG than Nolan Smith, and that's not to discredit Smith at all because he is a very good guard. Irving is just that much better.
- As a true freshman starting for Duke, that's an enormous amount of pressure people, in his limited time he is shooting 53% from 2, 45% from 3, and about 90% from the FT line. That is absolutely ridiculous.
- Nolan Smith didn't start for Duke as a freshman.....not that many people do. Especially at PG. And not to discredit Smith at all, but his scoring average spiked way up after Irving's injury because he's basically the only reliable scorer on that team now. I'm not a big fan of Singler. Pesonally, I think he sucks, but I'll write about that some other time if needed.
 
Revolution 9 said:
I understand he's had a so so freshman season. Seems like he coming on lately though. Let's see how he plays from here on out.
Not worth a top ten pick? This draft is so weak I don't see how you could say something like that.
The kid is obviously very gifted, and worth a long look.
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First off regarding the not worth a top ten pick.....I don't care if this draft is weak. If you're in the top 10 you want to get an impact player, or at the least, a starter. Harrison Barnes is neither of these. So what I'm saying is that if there isn't a player worth taking in the top 10 then trade your pick for one next year. Don't take a player that early just because he's one of the better players in a weak draft. Trade out of it, we have time to get better.

Secondly, him coming on lately is a huge misconception by the media. Let's look at some stats.

In the last 10 games, Harrison Barnes is averaging 17.9 PPG....Now I know what you're thinking, that's a good number, and it really is. But he's also shooting 42% from 2 and 32.8% from 3. And this is from a "shooting guard". Now to get even more specific, in the last 5 games, Harrison Barnes is averaging 16.4 PPG (still a good number) BUT 38% from 2 and 27 % from 3. Those are absolutely terrible numbers, I don't care who it is. For comparison his year long averages are 13.9 PPG, 41% from 2 and 32 % from 3. And lets not forget that the ACC outside of Duke, UNC, and maybe Florida State is absolutely terrible this year. Actually, most of CBB is pretty bad this year, just not a lot of good teams this year.

Now, Barnes is a very good rebounding guard. He's a solid player. He's smart. He has good form on his shot. But he's just not the player people think he is. He was handed the keys to UNC by Roy Williams, basically told that he would be the star player on offense and the amount of shots he's taken reflects that. But in a relatively weak year for college basketball he can't play that well, let alone dominate. BTW, guess who actually has similar numbers, except for way better shooting percentages as a freshman than Harrison Barnes does? Gordon Hayward. Granted in his 2nd year Hayward's 3 point percentage was terrible (30% I think), but Hayward is a much better 2 guard than Barnes is. Much better.
 
FavorsFlave said:
Well according to your theory then Hayward wasn't worth taking. He isn't an impact player or starter
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Technically yes...and I wasn't happy with the pick of Hayward at the time of all but he's grown on me. I can't say that I watched him a lot during college so I decided I would try to watch a lot of his tape. What I saw actually impressed me. He was easily the best player on Butler's team. He has a nice shot, he can take people to the hoop off the dribble (something I can't see Barnes doing in the NBA) and is surprisingly athletic. Obviously as we have seen he has very good vision and is willing to pass the ball. Harrison Barnes is a black hole at the moment, doesn't like to pass the ball much. Hayward can also post people up, just doesn't have the strength to do it in the pro's yet. So while I did not like the pick of Hayward at the time, he is growing on me. I think that he can be a good player, a solid starter.

And maybe Barnes will improve dramatically as the season goes on, but as of right now, you can't deny that Gordon Hayward's freshman year was much more impressive than Barnes' freshman year has been so far.
 
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