2011 draft.....

[Jazz Spazz]

Nolan Smith is a very good college player, but as a pro prospect he's nowhere near the level of Irving. So let's look at some facts here.

- With a senior Final Four MVP Kyle Singler and a senior Nolan Smith returning, Coach K tailored his offense around a true freshman in Kyrie Irving.
- Nolan Smith goes to Kyrie Irving for advice on how to play PG.....a senior off guard is going to a true freshman for advice on playing the point. And lets not forget this senior off guard is very much in the contention for NPOY
- Kyrie Irving shut down a senior All-Big 12 guard in Jacob Pullen in like his 2nd or 3rd game (can't remember which one)
- If you have watched Duke play at all, it is pretty obvious that Kyrie Irving is a much, much better PG than Nolan Smith, and that's not to discredit Smith at all because he is a very good guard. Irving is just that much better.
- As a true freshman starting for Duke, that's an enormous amount of pressure people, in his limited time he is shooting 53% from 2, 45% from 3, and about 90% from the FT line. That is absolutely ridiculous.
- Nolan Smith didn't start for Duke as a freshman.....not that many people do. Especially at PG. And not to discredit Smith at all, but his scoring average spiked way up after Irving's injury because he's basically the only reliable scorer on that team now. I'm not a big fan of Singler. Pesonally, I think he sucks, but I'll write about that some other time if needed.

Ok, that is good for the limited time he played there, and I know he is good.
I just don't think he is as good as people make out.
I also don't care what Nolan Smith did a few years ago, we are talking about right now.
Smith's averages for those same 8 games were close to the same as Irving.
He shot 52% from the field, but was only 32% from 3. They averaged the same in points, and assists, but Smith got more boards. Irving had more steals and blocks.
I think this does mean Irving is more athletic, and is younger.... but my point is that Smith is pretty dang close, and what Irving would have done the rest of the year is unknown. We know what Smith did the rest of the year.... started putting up POY type numbers.

I'm just saying there is room for doubt for me.

 

[Hantlers]

Ok, that is good for the limited time he played there, and I know he is good.
I just don't think he is as good as people make out.
I also don't care what Nolan Smith did a few years ago, we are talking about right now.
Smith's averages for those same 8 games were close to the same as Irving.
He shot 52% from the field, but was only 32% from 3. They averaged the same in points, and assists, but Smith got more boards. Irving had more steals and blocks.
I think this does mean Irving is more athletic, and is younger.... but my point is that Smith is pretty dang close, and what Irving would have done the rest of the year is unknown. We know what Smith did the rest of the year.... started putting up POY type numbers.

I'm just saying there is room for doubt for me.

I kinda hate doing this, because I really like Smith as a player. He's fun to watch and is always having fun. But look at the difference in how each player scored.
Irving has an excellent set shot, but can also shoot off the move pretty well.
Smith on the other hand has a pretty good set shot as well, but it's a pretty slow shot. He won't get the opportunity to do that in the NBA. He scores most of his points from open 3's or from driving to the hoop. Now this isn't a bad thing, but he's not the most athletic player ever. He won't be able to drive to the hoop in the NBA like he does in college. And while he does have a good assist average, you should see the amount of assist's he's missing out on. He's not very good at passing into the paint. He can't really run the pick and roll. He definitely looks for his shot more than he does to pass. Smith is a good player, but he's not a PG. He's a tweener. He's a SG in a PG's body. He also needs to have the ball in his hands to play like he does. Irving on the other hand is a true PG. He is almost everything you want from a PG. Both are good players, but Smith, IMO, will not be a starter in the NBA.

 

[Revolution 9]

First off regarding the not worth a top ten pick.....I don't care if this draft is weak. If you're in the top 10 you want to get an impact player, or at the least, a starter. Harrison Barnes is neither of these. So what I'm saying is that if there isn't a player worth taking in the top 10 then trade your pick for one next year. Don't take a player that early just because he's one of the better players in a weak draft. Trade out of it, we have time to get better.

Secondly, him coming on lately is a huge misconception by the media. Let's look at some stats.

In the last 10 games, Harrison Barnes is averaging 17.9 PPG....Now I know what you're thinking, that's a good number, and it really is. But he's also shooting 42% from 2 and 32.8% from 3. And this is from a "shooting guard". Now to get even more specific, in the last 5 games, Harrison Barnes is averaging 16.4 PPG (still a good number) BUT 38% from 2 and 27 % from 3. Those are absolutely terrible numbers, I don't care who it is. For comparison his year long averages are 13.9 PPG, 41% from 2 and 32 % from 3. And lets not forget that the ACC outside of Duke, UNC, and maybe Florida State is absolutely terrible this year. Actually, most of CBB is pretty bad this year, just not a lot of good teams this year.

Now, Barnes is a very good rebounding guard. He's a solid player. He's smart. He has good form on his shot. But he's just not the player people think he is. He was handed the keys to UNC by Roy Williams, basically told that he would be the star player on offense and the amount of shots he's taken reflects that. But in a relatively weak year for college basketball he can't play that well, let alone dominate. BTW, guess who actually has similar numbers, except for way better shooting percentages as a freshman than Harrison Barnes does? Gordon Hayward. Granted in his 2nd year Hayward's 3 point percentage was terrible (30% I think), but Hayward is a much better 2 guard than Barnes is. Much better.

You've obviously know a lot more about him than I do. Would you be more ok with him playing the 3 for us?
I'm all for Hay playing the 2, and think he can start for us next year there. I belive his jump shot is going to be rock solid.

If Barnes is a solid player as a Freshman are you at least curious to see how he developes? Not everyone can come in and dominate in their first year.
Let's give this kid a chance at least. Doesn't he deserve a long look?

 

[Jazz4ever]

Would anyone trade the Nets pick if #5-7 for Paul George?
George has been playing some decent ball lately and Pacers might
be interested.
Jazz get player they passed over last year and might wish they had taken.

If Terrence Jones is off the board I probably would.

 

[NUMBERICA]

You've obviously know a lot more about him than I do. Would you be more ok with him playing the 3 for us?
I'm all for Hay playing the 2, and think he can start for us next year there. I belive his jump shot is going to be rock solid.

If Barnes is a solid player as a Freshman are you at least curious to see how he developes? Not everyone can come in and dominate in their first year.
Let's give this kid a chance at least. Doesn't he deserve a long look?

This is my feeling as well. And if it's known (or at least believed, remember, the 2009 draft was supposed to be horrible) this draft is weak, how good of a return are you going to get trading out considering you don't really know what you're giving up?

Also, Barnes is not a SG. He's a SF if anything, and more of a hybrid F than a wing. The SG class this year is terrible.

Also, draft Justin Holiday in the 2nd round. He looks as good to me as any SG in this draft.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Let's also remember that our 2nd rounder moves up with losses as well. Hurray?

I also like Charles Jenkins as a 2nd rounder. Jon Leuer intrigues me, but I don't think he would translate to the NBA.

 

[prodigy]

Faried's sr. season vs. Millsap's sr. season:

nearly identical PER, EFF, Pts/Pos

i don't know where he'll be picked, i've seen as high as the lottery and as low as the late 2nd round. but in a draft considered weak I wouldn't mind adding a guy like him.

 

[Dwill4mvp]

Harrison Barnes

Please draft this kid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI3cDCcuOV8

I love how he was undefeated is final two years in high school. Although, he played in the CIML conference in Iowa, it's really not that bad of a conference. Plenty of kids went Division One. He also has been a part of this North Carolina turn around. This team was in the NIT last year. They lost some good players and are now a very competitive team. This kid seems clutch and I think could develop a killer instinct. He is very smart. He is not a chucker. The thing some people may have a problem with is his defense against a two. But, he really has not had that much of a problem. Guys from North Carolina are usually intense players, and play good defense. I want this kid for our future SG.

 

[Chad Feldheimer]

y u no post this in the 2011 Draft thread?

 

[Dwill4mvp]

oh ****... my bad.. Can i move it?

 

[Stifle Tower]

Let's also remember that our 2nd rounder moves up with losses as well. Hurray?

I also like Charles Jenkins as a 2nd rounder. Jon Leuer intrigues me, but I don't think he would translate to the NBA.

Do we have a 2nd? I thought we gave it to Chicago along with Boozer in order to get the TPE.

 

[Stifle Tower]

First off regarding the not worth a top ten pick.....I don't care if this draft is weak. If you're in the top 10 you want to get an impact player, or at the least, a starter. Harrison Barnes is neither of these. So what I'm saying is that if there isn't a player worth taking in the top 10 then trade your pick for one next year. Don't take a player that early just because he's one of the better players in a weak draft. Trade out of it, we have time to get better.

Good philosophy, but it takes two to tango. You don't think the Jazz tried to trade up last year from the 9? Everyone knew the draft was really five deep and then you had little difference from 6-16 or so.

This draft may shape up as the top-3, then perhaps a little more definition for the next 4-5 picks, then filler after that. PERHAPS, the Jazz can use their 13th-14th pick PLUS the GS pick to trade for a starting wing. That would be dependent on a rebuilding team willing to dump a veteran. But I don't think the #6 and #13 would even be good enough to move up to #3. In a very weak draft, it's doubtful Krazy Kahn would even bite on that one. But you never know, he and KOC are good friends.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Not to jinx us because I know there's a lot of ball left to be played and I also know the lotto balls can go against us, thus shoving us down the rung, but I just saw that we look like the Nets will have the 6th worst record in the league, AT BEST.

They have 17 wins and the next best team has 22. Add in the fact that the Raptors also have have 17 wins and are a half game behind and that there are three other teams with 15 wins (Washington, Sacramento, Minnesota), and we look in great shape right now. I've looked at the Nets schedule and realize it's pretty damn easy from here on out but still, I love where we stand at this point. Hopefully the Raptors can win both in London (they have a lot of foreigners so maybe they'll be stoked) and one or two other teams with 15 wins currently can get hot.

Well, not to rain on your parade, but we were in the same position with the Knicks last season. Then NY played decent down the stretch, passed a handful of teams and the pick dropped all the way down to #9. The same variables are in place this season: there are no incentives for the teams behind NJ to play well. That just hurts their draft positioning in an already weak draft. Luckily, the teams ahead of NJ have a 4 game cushion, but Detroit is in turmoil, Milwaukee sucks and the Clippers have Blake and not much else. On the other hand, NJ has no reason to tank; they've already traded their pick. And Williams/Lopez will develop even better timing together - provided Deron can play through his hand and wrist injury. That may very well be the biggest factor. If Deron was shooting better, NJ would have won 2 of their last 3.

 

[NCJazz]

Do we have a 2nd? I thought we gave it to Chicago along with Boozer in order to get the TPE.

Believe it to be the case. Almost to bad seems like we have more luck in the 2nd round than 1st.

 

[Fakers Luck]

Do we have a 2nd? I thought we gave it to Chicago along with Boozer in order to get the TPE.

According to RealGM, it is an unconditional 2nd rounder for 2011. I thought it was top 55 protected, but that never made much sense.

 

[Revolution 9]

ill move it dmvp.

and please call him the black falcon.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I don't know anything about him, but he sure sounds intriguing plays for Baylor could he be the next Durant type player here is the scouting report.


Strengths: Has incredible length for a wing player – has a 7’2.5” wingspan ... His NBA position is definitely on the wing as his perimeter skills - notably ball handling, lateral foot speed and athleticism - are phenomenal ... He can shoot the three, or pull up off the dribble, but is much better when attacking the basket ... He loves to work from the top of the key and take his man off the dribble, getting into the lane where he can use his size ... He has a tendency to take on two and three defenders at a time but is great at initiating contact and squaring up for one-handed runners and floaters to finish near the rim, when he's not throwing down highlight dunks ... Jones shows an aggressiveness and emotional fire that scouts like to see in players with this much potential.

Weaknesses: He sometimes tries to do too much, which at the high school level is completely fine because of his talent ... However, as he grows up and plays at higher levels he will have to learn to work with his teammates and improve his basketball IQ in this area if he expects to be a star ... He is special with the ball in his hands but isn't all that helpful when that's not the case ... His length makes him intimidating on defense but he doesn't give maximum effort on this side of the ball ... He will often coast on plays, standing on the three-point line waiting for the ball ... He can shoot from the perimeter but isn’t yet consistent ... Is expected to play a good deal in the post in his senior year at Duncanville, so his development on the perimeter (his long term position is small forward) will likely come in college ...

I've never sen him play, and I know we need a sg but if available he sounds too good to pass up.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I don't know anything about him, but he sure sounds intriguing plays for Baylor could he be the next Durant type player here is the scouting report.


Strengths: Has incredible length for a wing player – has a 7’2.5” wingspan ... His NBA position is definitely on the wing as his perimeter skills - notably ball handling, lateral foot speed and athleticism - are phenomenal ... He can shoot the three, or pull up off the dribble, but is much better when attacking the basket ... He loves to work from the top of the key and take his man off the dribble, getting into the lane where he can use his size ... He has a tendency to take on two and three defenders at a time but is great at initiating contact and squaring up for one-handed runners and floaters to finish near the rim, when he's not throwing down highlight dunks ... Jones shows an aggressiveness and emotional fire that scouts like to see in players with this much potential.

Weaknesses: He sometimes tries to do too much, which at the high school level is completely fine because of his talent ... However, as he grows up and plays at higher levels he will have to learn to work with his teammates and improve his basketball IQ in this area if he expects to be a star ... He is special with the ball in his hands but isn't all that helpful when that's not the case ... His length makes him intimidating on defense but he doesn't give maximum effort on this side of the ball ... He will often coast on plays, standing on the three-point line waiting for the ball ... He can shoot from the perimeter but isn’t yet consistent ... Is expected to play a good deal in the post in his senior year at Duncanville, so his development on the perimeter (his long term position is small forward) will likely come in college ...

I've never sen him play, and I know we need a sg but if available he sounds too good to pass up.

sorry talking about Perry Jones

 

[Justys]

I would really like to see Utah draft Harrison. He does seem to have potential. And if Utah gets the number 1 pick you have to pick irving!! just have to. pLus let him learn the ropes while Harris is still under contract for the next 2 years. And I would also love to see Utah sign Aaron Affalo from Denver full mid level. Resign Ak for 7-8 million for 3 years. are some moves i would to see.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Well, not to rain on your parade, but we were in the same position with the Knicks last season. Then NY played decent down the stretch, passed a handful of teams and the pick dropped all the way down to #9. The same variables are in place this season: there are no incentives for the teams behind NJ to play well. That just hurts their draft positioning in an already weak draft. Luckily, the teams ahead of NJ have a 4 game cushion, but Detroit is in turmoil, Milwaukee sucks and the Clippers have Blake and not much else. On the other hand, NJ has no reason to tank; they've already traded their pick. And Williams/Lopez will develop even better timing together - provided Deron can play through his hand and wrist injury. That may very well be the biggest factor. If Deron was shooting better, NJ would have won 2 of their last 3.

We were not in this same position. Post all-star game, there was not a five game difference to the 7th seed. We have such a nice cushion, it would be very tough to screw this up. That said, I like how you rationalize why NJ should play hard but no one else should or will; they'll just throw their hands up and concede. C'mon man.