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Ben Shapiro

I'm still at a loss as to what exactly the video is supposed to be satirizing. This seems to be a case of schroedingers douche bag in action. Where someone presents something offensive and then if it gets a negative reaction declares it was just a joke, and those who got offended are the ones who need to check themselves.

I don't have a problem with teaching kids a more complete picture of what pre-colombian culture was like, warts and all when it's age appropriate of course.

And I'm "quick" to point out the atrocities committed by the conquerors because by and large I think we still have a far too romanticized idea of how this country came to be, and native people continue to suffer the consequences of it.

I also believe in the concept of not "punching down" so to speak. I'm a white guy who descended from pioneers, so I already benefit from the subjugation of America's native people. So when I see white people making "satirical" videos adding insult to injury I guess I just don't think it's ok.

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Well, I didn't make the video and I don't condone it. I have a hard time believing you don't see the satire in it though. Just because I can, it doesn't mean I like it, laugh at it, support it, etc.
 
Archie Moses said:
The literal definition of satire disagrees with you.
Just because something is offensive and can be taken serious, does not mean it's not satire.
I mean, this right here is why guys like Milo Yianopolis are blowing up right now in popularity.
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It's not a satire just because it is mocking someone. Had it been making fun of the argument mentioned above, then it would have been satire.

For example, if I said "Archie is the biggest ****ing idiot in this forum", it wouldn't be satire just because I'm mocking you. It would simply be me mocking you. Had I said "Archie is very well informed and intelligent", it would be satire, since I'm not actually making that argument.

This is really basic stuff.

Also, your buddy Milo has been marginalized and ostracized for daring to express an actually bold, but unpopular, opinion, as opposed to spouting braindead alt-right gibberish.
 
Siro said:
It's not a satire just because it is mocking someone. Had it been making fun of the argument mentioned above, then it would have been satire.

For example, if I said "Archie is the biggest ****ing idiot in this forum", it wouldn't be satire just because I'm mocking you. It would simply be me mocking you. Had I said "Archie is very well informed and intelligent", it would be satire, since I'm not actually making that argument.

This is really basic stuff.

Also, your buddy Milo has been marginalized and ostracized for daring to express an actually bold, but unpopular, opinion, as opposed to spouting braindead alt-right gibberish.
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Satire:
the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.

Nah, dude, you're wrong. Just because you are incapable of understanding something different than how you learned it, doesn't make it wrong. Satire is something beyond just the definition I copied and pasted too. It's diverse, complex and your examples are simple-minded and a slap to the face of wide range of satiric modes (three to be exact.)

Mentioning someone makes him my buddy now, eh?

Putting you on ignore now, dude. We'll just have to agree to disagree on many things. Would love to meet you in real life sometime. I'm not half as bad as you think I am. ;)

Hehepeepeecaca
 
I agree that video is Satire. Satire can just be mockery. That video makes a mockery of Native people as well as attempts to mock people who dislike Columbus. That is satire, just a ****ty form of it poorly done.

Both of Siro's examples could be considered satire. This video is similar to the first example.

The video is dumb and incorrect. Some issues are complex, especially things this old. It is odd that we celebrate Columbus day though. He was not a good person or very influential.
 
Archie Moses said:
Satire:
the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.

Nah, dude, you're wrong. Just because you are incapable of understanding something different than how you learned it, doesn't make it wrong. Satire is something beyond just the definition I copied and pasted too. It's diverse, complex and your examples are simple-minded and a slap to the face of wide range of satiric modes (three to be exact.)

Mentioning someone makes him my buddy now, eh?

Putting you on ignore now, dude. We'll just have to agree to disagree on many things. Would love to meet you in real life sometime. I'm not half as bad as you think I am. ;)

Hehepeepeecaca
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Did my joke upset you? Strange. Thought you were a lover of jokes. But maybe it's just jokes about genocide that you enjoy. /shrug

To clarify some things, I don't think you're a bad person, or a good person for that matter. I do think you're dumb as a rock, and I don't think you're capable of offering anything substantive to any discussion. So really, ignore me or don't. It's all the same.
 
Ron Mexico said:
I agree that video is Satire. Satire can just be mockery. That video makes a mockery of Native people as well as attempts to mock people who dislike Columbus. That is satire, just a ****ty form of it poorly done.

Both of Siro's examples could be considered satire. This video is similar to the first example.

The video is dumb and incorrect. Some issues are complex, especially things this old. It is odd that we celebrate Columbus day though. He was not a good person or very influential.
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Nah. Zombie is right. No satire without irony. Satire means you're mocking the stance you appear to represent. Not just making fun of something.
 
Ron Mexico said:
I agree that video is Satire. Satire can just be mockery. That video makes a mockery of Native people as well as attempts to mock people who dislike Columbus. That is satire, just a ****ty form of it poorly done.

Both of Siro's examples could be considered satire. This video is similar to the first example.

The video is dumb and incorrect. Some issues are complex, especially things this old. It is odd that we celebrate Columbus day though. He was not a good person or very influential.
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You hit the nail on the head for me right here.
 
Siro said:
Did my joke upset you? Strange. Thought you were a lover of jokes. But maybe it's just jokes about genocide that you enjoy. /shrug

To clarify some things, I don't think you're a bad person, or a good person for that matter. I do think you're dumb as a rock, and I don't think you're capable of offering anything substantive to any discussion. So really, ignore me or don't. It's all the same.
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Yeah, I hit show post to see your response. Pretty predictable. Instead of refuting what I wrote about the actual meaning of satire you hit back with personal insults and the "you're dumb as rocks" rhetoric. Cool story, dude. Good job and witty af insults.
 
Siro said:
Nah. Zombie is right. No satire without irony. Satire means you're mocking the stance you appear to represent. Not just making fun of something.
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Maybe traditionally in literature that would be more of the definition but the word like most words in the English language has evolved past having strict guidelines like what you are attempting to assign. Satire does not need to be humorous at all or even attempt to be.

The simple main definition now in the dictionary is this:

1.
the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.

So even according to that it can just be ridicule. This video is ridicule in exposing a view point that making fun of Columbus is dumb. They are very wrong in the video but it still falls in the definition.

But dictionaries are not even the place to go for language. Dictionaries simply attempt to keep up with language not be the benchmark or definition for them.


But really this is just semantics over a word that is broadly used and meaningless even if we define it. That video is offensive and the information it attempts to portray is incorrect.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Maybe traditionally in literature that would be more of the definition but the word like most words in the English language has evolved past having strict guidelines like what you are attempting to assign. Satire does not need to be humorous at all or even attempt to be.

The simple main definition now in the dictionary is this:

1.
the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.

So even according to that it can just be ridicule. This video is ridicule in exposing a view point that making fun of Columbus is dumb. They are very wrong in the video but it still falls in the definition.

But dictionaries are not even the place to go for language. Dictionaries simply attempt to keep up with language not be the benchmark or definition for them.


But really this is just semantics over a word that is broadly used and meaningless even if we define it. That video is offensive and the information it attempts to portray is incorrect.
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Ya, I see what you're saying, but we have to take the context of this conversation into account.

If you make an argument, and once someone calls you out you go "I was being satirical", it means that you're NOT making that argument. It means you're mocking it. That's the context here. I understood it as Shapiro saying that the video is in jest. And that's a lie. The video is sincerely making the argument it's making.
 
Archie Moses said:
Yeah, I hit show post to see your response. Pretty predictable. Instead of refuting what I wrote about the actual meaning of satire you hit back with personal insults and the "you're dumb as rocks" rhetoric. Cool story, dude. Good job and witty af insults.
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You said nothing worth responding to. You coped and pasted from the dictionary, ignoring the essence of the matter (the opposite of how Ron Mexico expressed disagreement). The essence of the argument is that Shapiro and yourself agree with that view, so slapping the word "satire" on it is irrelevant. And then you hung onto my use of the word "buddy" instead of my actual point about the "freedom of speech" crowd being full of ****. Thus, my observation about your dumbassness.
 
Archie Moses said:
I'm fascinated by Native Americans and their culture. In the last month alone I've watched 4 different documentaries on different Native tribes and empires. What gets me is sheeple are so prone to bash Columbus and all the bad things the Spaniards and the white men did to the Natives and are either ignorant or apathetic to the bizarre and barbaric practices many of the Natives did. To me, they both accomplished great things, were cultures to be celebrated and remembered, but both did some pretty nasty ****. It's history. Deal with it.
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lol i will say something about this. but telling the truth got me 2 infractions and a ban!

when the left and the right dont even have language in common anymore. their is no common ground. their is no common sense.
because for common ground and common sense their first has to be something to have in common!

and secondly hitler is left wing. they defend communism and socialimsm. while it brought the most misery in the world.

so maybe i get another infractions! see you guys in 2 weeks
 
DutchJazzer said:
lol i will say something about this. but telling the truth got me 2 infractions and a ban!

when the left and the right dont even have language in common anymore. their is no common ground. their is no common sense.
because for common ground and common sense their first has to be something to have in common!

and secondly hitler is left wing. they defend communism and socialimsm. while it brought the most misery in the world.

so maybe i get another infractions! see you guys in 2 weeks
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You earned two infractions and a ban because you're more trouble than you're worth, your posts are half truths at best, and have more spin than a laundromat.

I guess now is a good time to remind you of Godwin's law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule of Hitler analogies) is an Internet adage that asserts that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1"; that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Adolf Hitler or his deeds. Promulgated by the American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990,Godwin's law originally referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions. It is now applied to any threaded online discussion, such as Internet forums, chat rooms, and comment threads, as well as to speeches, articles, and other rhetoric where reductio ad Hitlerum occurs.

Generalization, corollaries, usage

With respect to probability theory, Godwin's law becomes a special case of a Bernoulli trial.

Indeed, there are many corollaries to Godwin's law, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself) than others. For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned Adolf Hitler has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress
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So congratulations on perpetually losing.
 
Harambe said:
You earned two infractions and a ban because you're more trouble than you're worth, your posts are half truths at best, and have more spin than a laundromat.

I guess now is a good time to remind you of Godwin's law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law


So congratulations on perpetually losing.
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how is hitler being a socialist is a half truth! it is full on truth!

he said himself he is a socialist, his party was called socialist drivel, his speeches where socialism speeches his book where socialism drivel. all that could be ignored if it want for 90%+ of his laws, regulations and policies being socialist/communist or left wing. I am sick and tired of being lumped into nazism by the people who are on the same political spectrum as the actual nazis, and even worse the same spectrum as that murderous thug mao, castro polpot, and all those vile scumbag left wingers. but atleast be honest about it!

dont get me wrong the right wingers aint no sinats. after all anti government scum Timor mcvay(if that is how you pronounce his name) was right wingingnism gone to far
 
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