Bryce Cotton or Trey "4-22 from the field" Burke
- Thread starter Batman
- Start date
getting him for cancer's knee?
Red
Well-Known Member
I've been a Cotton booster from the start. But, simply put, the sample size is way too small to make this call, IMHO. By now, Snyder knows what Cotton's strengths are. He's quick as a desert roadrunner. He's a good shot. And I'll state now, I do believe he is and would be the better shooter of the two, and from beyond the arc as well. Cotton would prove to be more of a deadeye then Burke.
But, Cotton is small, and his defense may be the factor that determines if he can really stick at this level at all. We'll see. If Burke and Cotton are both on the roster next year, I would presume Cotton is the 3rd PG. I do have the confidence in Cotton to know he is not going to be someone who hurts this team. Look, he was +15 in 25 minutes against Portland. Exum was -13 in 23 minutes. Cotton is a very smart player, very unselfish, seems to run our sets just fine when he's out there. Cotton is a great example of what a 4 year college player can bring: maturity on the floor, look a little less like a rookie then a lot of one and done early entries.
You know, it might be up to Burke if he wants that backup job. I do believe Cotton can challenge for it, if he is on our roster next year. And I am certain Snyder knows that already. I think he's seen enough to know Cotton is worth keeping. But, it's a small sample size yet. Up to Cotton himself really. I'm a fan of this guy, and believe in a couple years, whoever has him on his team, will be glad they do.
We'll see what the offseason brings. Me, I sincerely hope he makes the Jazz roster and at least gets minutes as an offensive spark off the bench. Every team needs that, and Cotton can excel at that I honestly believe. But still too early to know if Cotton can be the backup on a playoff caliber team, which is what we expect for next years team. But can he help such a team, be a valuable matchup nightmare for such a team? You bet, IMHO. He'll run the sets, shoot the ball well, and seldom turn the ball over. And he will push the pace when that's what's called for. We can do much worse, he'll be a good 3rd PG, and I think the potential to challenge Burke for backup. But again, all this could change depending on our offseason moves....
But, Cotton is small, and his defense may be the factor that determines if he can really stick at this level at all. We'll see. If Burke and Cotton are both on the roster next year, I would presume Cotton is the 3rd PG. I do have the confidence in Cotton to know he is not going to be someone who hurts this team. Look, he was +15 in 25 minutes against Portland. Exum was -13 in 23 minutes. Cotton is a very smart player, very unselfish, seems to run our sets just fine when he's out there. Cotton is a great example of what a 4 year college player can bring: maturity on the floor, look a little less like a rookie then a lot of one and done early entries.
You know, it might be up to Burke if he wants that backup job. I do believe Cotton can challenge for it, if he is on our roster next year. And I am certain Snyder knows that already. I think he's seen enough to know Cotton is worth keeping. But, it's a small sample size yet. Up to Cotton himself really. I'm a fan of this guy, and believe in a couple years, whoever has him on his team, will be glad they do.
We'll see what the offseason brings. Me, I sincerely hope he makes the Jazz roster and at least gets minutes as an offensive spark off the bench. Every team needs that, and Cotton can excel at that I honestly believe. But still too early to know if Cotton can be the backup on a playoff caliber team, which is what we expect for next years team. But can he help such a team, be a valuable matchup nightmare for such a team? You bet, IMHO. He'll run the sets, shoot the ball well, and seldom turn the ball over. And he will push the pace when that's what's called for. We can do much worse, he'll be a good 3rd PG, and I think the potential to challenge Burke for backup. But again, all this could change depending on our offseason moves....
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Do you remember how bad the entire team was that year?
Getting Traded
Banned
Yes, and we also had a dreadful coach.
Red
Well-Known Member
Exactly. That's why I think Cotton should at the least make the roster. Whether backup or a spark off the bench to push the pace on offense, he's a guard who can do just that, plus shoot well, and play smart with few turnovers.
That's the kind of offensive weapon that can play a key role on a team. And yes, it is something that Burke cannot duplicate with his own skill set. So have a guard on your team that can put your team in uptempo mode, and that's exactly what Cotton can and will do. 3rd string may be the best place for such a role, but I can certainly see Cotton challenging Burke as well. That's for next year. I would keep Cotton, and Snyder will know how and when to use him. We can get him on the cheap, and I do believe we will be happy we did. A long way to go, but I suspect if he sticks with us, he's a guy who can actually be a fan favorite in due time. A superstar, well, of course not, a role player. But he'll be a fan favorite in Utah some day. If he stays, obviously. His humility and 100% team orientation will make him well liked here. That has been the case everywhere he has played.
hawkeye
Well-Known Member
Burke.
I'm not really a fan of Burke, and would not be upset if he was traded. Though I do think he can be a good back up PG. I think he has made improvements from last year to this year. Last year he would not drive it to the basket. This year he seems more aggressive in getting into the paint. We have also asked him to be the #1 option in our second unit which I don't think he is suited for, Insert Burks. I think a second unit with Burke and Burks could be successful.
I'm not really a fan of Burke, and would not be upset if he was traded. Though I do think he can be a good back up PG. I think he has made improvements from last year to this year. Last year he would not drive it to the basket. This year he seems more aggressive in getting into the paint. We have also asked him to be the #1 option in our second unit which I don't think he is suited for, Insert Burks. I think a second unit with Burke and Burks could be successful.
I cannot believe that Trey will ever be efficient being a number 1, whether starting or off the bench, and so far that seems to be the only role he can fill, versus say being a pass-first PG. He is just too limited physically so that most every shot is a serious challenge for him and I don't think that changes and so he will never be efficient. I don't think Cotton will be a big scorer but I think he can get other guys shots more easily, especially on the break or especially transition. Trey NEVER pushes it up the court except in the most obvious FB situations, and then he is particularly miserable at it. Rudy runs the FB better than Trey.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Handlogten's Heros
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This... how is that **** allowed? Pretty blatant... not voting in protest.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
As for the Burks discussion, I'd like to see him in the starting lineup.
Burks at the 1 now is very different than Burks at the 1 two and three years ago. Why? Because Hayward has two full years of running the offense under his belt, and Hood seems capable of doing it as well. You put Burks out there as the 1, but he isn't running the offense, Hood and Hayward are. Burks is putting pressure on the rim, drawing fouls, and showcasing his greatly improved catch and shoot three-point shot. Those are all things Ex and Trey haven't been doing. (Well Ex has been attempting a lot of the catch and shoot three's, but...).
Exum isn't ready, and while I expect him to be better next season, I still don't think starting him will be doing him a lot of good. Exum as the backup playing 30 + mins a night. There are 96 mins available at the 2-3 spots, so Burks can easily slide over when needed, etc.
Burks at the 1 now is very different than Burks at the 1 two and three years ago. Why? Because Hayward has two full years of running the offense under his belt, and Hood seems capable of doing it as well. You put Burks out there as the 1, but he isn't running the offense, Hood and Hayward are. Burks is putting pressure on the rim, drawing fouls, and showcasing his greatly improved catch and shoot three-point shot. Those are all things Ex and Trey haven't been doing. (Well Ex has been attempting a lot of the catch and shoot three's, but...).
Exum isn't ready, and while I expect him to be better next season, I still don't think starting him will be doing him a lot of good. Exum as the backup playing 30 + mins a night. There are 96 mins available at the 2-3 spots, so Burks can easily slide over when needed, etc.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
a neg is a better protest, and if this isn't a case that deserves one, I don't know what is.
Red
Well-Known Member
When talking about how a D Leaguer stays at the next level, Snyder used Cotton as an example and in the process defined his role as he saw it:
Though Snyder is giving them playing time at season’s end to show what they can do, he cautioned that none of them should be out to prove anything too big.
“I think it’s dangerous to try to prove something, because when you’re trying to prove something, by definition it’s about you,” he said. “It’s very possible that you’re doing some things that you don’t need to do and you end up hurting yourself trying to prove something individually. I think the guys that are able to compete and do the things that they’re good at doing are the guys that generally are successful and play well in those situations.”
As an example, Snyder noted how Cotton’s role with the Jazz is very different than it was with, incidentally, the Austin D-League club before he was signed by Utah in February.
In Austin, Cotton averaged 22.4 points while playing a league-high 40.5 minutes per contest.
By contrast, he has averaged 2.1 points in 6.2 minutes per game with the Jazz. Of the 23 Utah games he’s been under contract for, he’s appeared in just 11.
“By definition, if he’s playing five or 10 minutes a game, he’s gonna have to play a little different,” Snyder said. “Maybe he’s capable of expending more energy, of picking up full-court (defensively). Those are the guys that come in and ignite teams.”
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If Cotton thinks third string PG will keep him in the NBA, he's liable to excel at just that role. He's smart enough to adjust and fill that role. Whether there's a bigger role with this team or another only the future will tell. I would not bet against that possibility, but he has to stick around first.
Though Snyder is giving them playing time at season’s end to show what they can do, he cautioned that none of them should be out to prove anything too big.
“I think it’s dangerous to try to prove something, because when you’re trying to prove something, by definition it’s about you,” he said. “It’s very possible that you’re doing some things that you don’t need to do and you end up hurting yourself trying to prove something individually. I think the guys that are able to compete and do the things that they’re good at doing are the guys that generally are successful and play well in those situations.”
As an example, Snyder noted how Cotton’s role with the Jazz is very different than it was with, incidentally, the Austin D-League club before he was signed by Utah in February.
In Austin, Cotton averaged 22.4 points while playing a league-high 40.5 minutes per contest.
By contrast, he has averaged 2.1 points in 6.2 minutes per game with the Jazz. Of the 23 Utah games he’s been under contract for, he’s appeared in just 11.
“By definition, if he’s playing five or 10 minutes a game, he’s gonna have to play a little different,” Snyder said. “Maybe he’s capable of expending more energy, of picking up full-court (defensively). Those are the guys that come in and ignite teams.”
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If Cotton thinks third string PG will keep him in the NBA, he's liable to excel at just that role. He's smart enough to adjust and fill that role. Whether there's a bigger role with this team or another only the future will tell. I would not bet against that possibility, but he has to stick around first.
Batman
Well-Known Member
3 things:
1- I did not even recognize this could be considered racist. You see, I'm from St George and my ancestors were cotton farmers. It's part of my heritage and so it just kind of came to my mind. It was not meant to be racist, and honestly I'm like the least racist person in the world, so ...
2-I think sometimes it is possible that we as a society flip out about things and are overly sensitive. Don't get me wrong, I may have been insensitive here. I just didn't realize it, but if the intent was innocuous, I suppose understanding must ensue. I'll strive to be more sensitive.
3-Naos, I think your response is part of the problem we as humans have. Your usually a my way or the high way kind of guy. And I don't think your humble but I could be wrong. Furthermore, to react the way you did was sort of bereft of dignity.'Consider for a moment what racism is: a form of dehumanization? Perhaps. And yet you dehumanize posters on this board from time to time bro. Think about that.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
These justifications are **** at best, and only further cement yourself as an *******.
Claiming your ancestors were cotton pickers, but then acting like you don't know the history is absurd. Impossible to believe that.
Comparing a poster's abrasive style to racism because both are dehumanizing is so far off base that I don't even know how to respond.
Just because, as you claim, the weight of your words were heavier than what you intended, does not make them not racist. Racism exist largely because attitudes such as yours are positively reinforced. So don't say we're overreacting.
If you truly didn't mean what you said, just own up to it first, say you're sorry, and grow. If you had valid reasons, you could try explaining yourself, but the ones you offered aren't believable or valid, so what you responded with just comes off as dickish. It seems like you're more uncomfortable with being called out for what you said, than with how it was understood.