I watched Hayward play against Kobe, Belinelli, and JR Smith the last part of the season. He did a good job of staying in front of them and challenging there shots. So not all of my opinion of his Defensive ability has come while he was guarding 3's
Burks at #12
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I watched Hayward play against Kobe, Belinelli, and JR Smith the last part of the season. He did a good job of staying in front of them and challenging there shots. So not all of my opinion of his Defensive ability has come while he was guarding 3's
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Yes, the Kobe game was wonderful. Lost in that is the fact Kobe stopped driving this year, but I remember the game well and that was Hayward's finest moment. You saw him play against Smith at the end of the season scrimmage, right? I can't imagine putting any stock in that. And Bellinelli? You can have that one.
The fact is Hayward played about 200 total minutes at the 2 this year. And when you factor in the games you just mentioned, that means less than a hundred were against all the other 2's in the league. You really think Hayward is going to be just fine against Ellis, Gordon, Ginobili, Martin types? I'm a little doubtful.
Hayward played against Ginobili there at the end of the season also. He did alright. Not great but for the most part kept Manu to jump shots. Gordon yes i think Hayward well be just fine against. Ellis might be a struggle, But name me a player that really stays in front of Ellis well at all. Martin he matches up pretty well against. If you were to ask me who I would rather have Gordon guarding Manu/Ells or Melo/Lebron I would go with the first 2. He has the quickness to be able to stay in front of them pretty well along with the length to challenge there shots. With the other 2 they can bull rush him right to the rim and finish.
But the real advantage to Hayward playing the 2 comes at the offensive end were his length allows him to shoot over smaller players while not getting killed on the defensive end. The same cant be said if he is playing the 3.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Assessing Hayward's defense in the last week of the season is virtually worthless. My observation of Hayward is he's not quick enough to defend 2's. I hope he proves me wrong. Hayward does have an advantage offensively against 2's, but he's not much of a driver at this point and he still hasn't learned how to get separation on his shot.
There's a lot more hope than fact that Hayward can play the 2 in the league.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I guess when it's all said and done, if the Jazz have a lineup of Burks AND Hayward, one of those guys will end up with a mismatch. The 2 and 3 were interchangeable in Sloan's offense; I assume it will be close to the same scheme Corbin employs. Either one of those guys should get open off of curls. Burks has the ability to drive past his man. If the opponents switch on a screen, Hayward would have the height advantage on a SG.
I still think we need to pick up a bigger SF. But that can wait until next year's draft, or until the bigs all prove themselves and the Jazz decide to clear out the logjam by trading Millsap. For now, just pick up CJ's cheap option. Start Hayward at the 2 and CJ at the 3. Bring Burks off the bench for 15-20 mins. initially and have Bell play 10 misn or so until Burks is ready for more PT. Bell can still be a good mentor for Burks on defense and toughness. Then the Jazz can make some moves at the deadline if the rookies and sophs have advanced enough.
I still think we need to pick up a bigger SF. But that can wait until next year's draft, or until the bigs all prove themselves and the Jazz decide to clear out the logjam by trading Millsap. For now, just pick up CJ's cheap option. Start Hayward at the 2 and CJ at the 3. Bring Burks off the bench for 15-20 mins. initially and have Bell play 10 misn or so until Burks is ready for more PT. Bell can still be a good mentor for Burks on defense and toughness. Then the Jazz can make some moves at the deadline if the rookies and sophs have advanced enough.
I watched every game last year except 2. I watched Hayward switch a bunch of time onto the PG and find away to stay in front of them. He played sound defense all year except when he was getting overpowered by bigger players. So my observation differs, From what I say Hayward stayed in front of his guy just fine in basic defense. I can only remember a few times were a guy with the ball out quicked Hay and went by him. Most of the time he forced them into a pull up jump shot. Saw a bunch of times were he got bumped out of stance by a bigger guy or got a foul called. I think Hay can guard the 2 as well as any other player we have. And better than most of them.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Ok then. We didn't see the same things.
Of course this is the case. He played about a half a year with the time he was given last year. There is a lot of hope that he well develop. But from what I saw he has the tools already in place to do it if he progresses like I think he can.
Fair enough, Maybe I am just seeing though the Jazz Glasses on this. But I do tryouts every year for the high school teams, He seems to have the ability and fundimentals to be able to play defense at a high level
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Just be aware that Hayward's PER Against on 82games shows him to be substantially worse guarding 2's than 3's, and not particularly good guarding either.
Again we are talking about a 20 rookie, who up until the last part of the season got very little playing time and was still trying to figure his way out in the NBA. Not to mention getting hosed by the Refs. If you would have told in December Hayward was going to lead us to Victory against the Lakers In LA and then score 34 points in the last game of the season I would be saying that with what he had shown up to that point there was no way that was happening.
What I am saying is that I see the potential for him to be able to play the 2 at a high level in the NBA. Has he done it so far? No. But IMO he does have the ability, And with the way he improved at the end of the season plus the work ethic he seems to posses I wouldn't put it past him to do it.
Couldn't help but laugh a little.
Generally speaking, you need physical tools and help defense to be effective on the perimeter, Hayward really doesn't have either. He doesn't have the worst tools in that regard, but they are very pedestrian. I think he'll be an okay defender based on intelligence and effort level, but I just don't see a very good defender in him because of those limitations.
But I guess let's see what happens if/when he isn't the worst player in the league for the first half of a season.
I didn't laugh because I disagreed. I only laughed because this board can be turned upside down so easily. Just say Hayward is an average defender, Jimmer's overrated, etc ... and all hell breaks loose. I chuckled because I envisioned the .. ummm, responses to your post.
Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
I remember when you could get inside of Kobe's head. Remember how completely frustrated he was the year the Jazz swept them? Those were the good days. Hopefully for the league LeBron doesn't follow the same mental trajectory... but I think he might.
Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
Prior to the playoff series I mentioned I recall the media and huge numbers of fans going gaga over Kobe's mental toughness, but the Jazz cracked his confidence early and he never again hit his stride in that series. At the conclusion of this year's Eastern Conference Finals people were making the same sort of fuss over LeBron, but the Mavs got the better of him and his mojo evaporated.
To my great disappointment, Kobe learned from his mistakes. Can LeBron do the same? I hope you're right that he can't, but before the finals started it looked to many people that he had already arrived. I'm proud to say I won the Cheetos pool in my office by betting it all on the Mavs in the finals, but I'm not sure I'll be making that same bet next time around.