But...like really.....how the **** are we gonna get a star?

[Julie Greengiant]

I know you think that doesn't happen a lot but it happens pretty frequently. Recently.

Since I'm such a good dude, I'm gonna follow up on this. Harden was traded for young prospects, draft picks, and expiring contracts. Here are a list of other franchise players in recent years involved in similar trades:

Pau Gasol
Chris Paul
Dwight Howard
Deron Williams (perceived as a franchise talent before his injury issues)
Carmello Anthony (willing to discount this since Denver got a haul back)
Eric Bledsoe (probably too early to call him a franchise player)
Al Jefferson (haha get is because he's having a better statistical season than paul george who is a "franchise player" remember when we traded kosta koufos and a draft pick for him then we let him walk for nothing haha wow what a coup for charlotte)

Names to watch out for:
Kevin Love
Kyrie Irving

To compound things, the new CBA will probably facilitate more deals like this. That's crazy though because this NEVER happens.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I didn't mention Duncan. Yes Paul George was picked 10th. A pick that you won't get a superstar with (he isn't one). The Pacers are the best team in the NBA without a superstar.

PG is for sure I super-star. I judge a "super-star" as a guy who is going to be in the top 10 for years to come. PG is that dude.

 

[Julie Greengiant]

PG is for sure I super-star. I judge a "super-star" as a guy who is going to be in the top 10 for years to come. PG is that dude.

based on what? he's shooting under 40% since January 1, this month he's scoring 17ppg on 17 shots, and his assist to turnover ratio is still bad. is it just his defense? is he really that good of a defender or has frank vogel crafted a historically great defense? even so, doesn't he need to actually be a good 2-way player to be considered a superstar? he came out hot but he's regressed to the mean and surpassed even that at this point.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

based on what? he's shooting under 40% since January 1, this month he's scoring 17ppg on 17 shots, and his assist to turnover ratio is still bad. is it just his defense? is he really that good of a defender or has frank vogel crafted a historically great defense? even so, doesn't he need to actually be a good 2-way player to be considered a superstar? he came out hot but he's regressed to the mean and surpassed even that at this point.

Based on he is a top-10 player. So he had a bad month and a half. If we drafted, I would take him in the top 10. I don't see him falling out of the top 10 anytime soon. He is the best player on a top team. He is the best defensive player on a top defensive team. Offensively he isn't elite, but he is pretty good.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Since I'm such a good dude, I'm gonna follow up on this. Harden was traded for young prospects, draft picks, and expiring contracts. Here are a list of other franchise players in recent years involved in similar trades:

Pau Gasol
Chris Paul
Dwight Howard
Deron Williams (perceived as a franchise talent before his injury issues)
Carmello Anthony (willing to discount this since Denver got a haul back)
Eric Bledsoe (probably too early to call him a franchise player)
Al Jefferson (haha get is because he's having a better statistical season than paul george who is a "franchise player" remember when we traded kosta koufos and a draft pick for him then we let him walk for nothing haha wow what a coup for charlotte)

Names to watch out for:
Kevin Love
Kyrie Irving

To compound things, the new CBA will probably facilitate more deals like this. That's crazy though because this NEVER happens.

Paul, Howard, Carmelo, and to a certain extent, Deron, all demanded their way out of small-market teams. And they chose glamorous cities. Love is reportedly targeting the Lakers. Stern made sure to put Pau Gasol in LA as other teams put together better deals, only to have Stern hold out to approve - as commissioner - one that included an asst. coach in the trade.

Are you sure Jefferson is such a coup for Charlotte? What is their record in the weak EC? They're not even a .500 team. Big Al is leading them to the exact same record he did with Utah. But they might make the playoffs due to their conference. Sorry, Jefferson is NOT a franchise center.

In short, yes, sometimes franchise players force their way out of certain markets. But I have yet to hear one list Utah as a preferred destination.

 

[Julie Greengiant]

Based on he is a top-10 player. So he had a bad month and a half. If we drafted, I would take him in the top 10. I don't see him falling out of the top 10 anytime soon. He is the best player on a top team. He is the best defensive player on a top defensive team. Offensively he isn't elite, but he is pretty good.

Again, top ten based on what? He isn't an elite offensive player and he plays on the best defense in the league next to the likely DPOY and actual best defensive player Roy Hibbert. Feel free to discredit it with statistical data, but how many top ten players go 2 months shooting under 40%?

 

[Julie Greengiant]

Paul, Howard, Carmelo, and to a certain extent, Deron, all demanded their way out of small-market teams. And they chose glamorous cities. Love is reportedly targeting the Lakers. Stern made sure to put Pau Gasol in LA as other teams put together better deals, only to have Stern hold out to approve - as commissioner - one that included an asst. coach in the trade.

Are you sure Jefferson is such a coup for Charlotte? What is their record in the weak EC? They're not even a .500 team. Big Al is leading them to the exact same record he did with Utah. But they might make the playoffs due to their conference. Sorry, Jefferson is NOT a franchise center.

In short, yes, sometimes franchise players force their way out of certain markets. But I have yet to hear one list Utah as a preferred destination.

A. Yes, it isn't EXACTLY THE SAME situation, but he didn't want to sign an extension in OKC because they couldn't afford to pay him what he wanted and he wanted to be a #1 option anyway. So yeah, he basically forced a trade (read:trade. he was not given away for free. the deal was comparable to those other deals.) I'm glad you brought a conspiracy theory in to this as well. Solid.

B. The Jefferson thing was clearly a joke.

 

[Stifle Tower]

A. Yes, it isn't EXACTLY THE SAME situation, but he didn't want to sign an extension in OKC because they couldn't afford to pay him what he wanted and he wanted to be a #1 option anyway. So yeah, he basically forced a trade (read:trade. he was not given away for free. the deal was comparable to those other deals.) I'm glad you brought a conspiracy theory in to this as well. Solid.

B. The Jefferson thing was clearly a joke.

I didn't include Harden. OKC couldn't afford to keep him so they traded him. Yes, you are correct. They made a choice, a little different from what Utah did with Deron, but both teams did get assets back. In Jefferson's case, he was at the end of his contract, Jazz shopped him, didn't find a deal they wanted so they let AL and Paul walk. In effect, they got back 2 firsts and a couple of seconds plus 1-yr contracts. That was the value of the cap space they had by NOT taking on garbage contracts for either player. Or in the case of Millsap, we heard rumors the price was Millsap PLUS Burks for Bledsoe. Eric's certainly an outstanding player, but I'd rather have Burls on his rookie deal + the GS pick.

Yes, I did bring a conspiracy in because MANY teams have tried to include players in trades that are no longer active, but haven't officially declared their retirement. Jazz even came out in an article and said they had tried it. NEVER has the trade made it past the commissioner's desk. In LA's case, their first trade proposal was shot down by the league office. They then went back and ADDED not only a former player, but one who was now an assistant coach for a different team. And Stern APPROVED that deal. There were SEVERAL teams that objected to no avail. To my knowledge, unofficially retired players several years removed from their last game have not been a part of any trade since then (please correct me if I'm wrong).

So, yes, it was one of the dirty legacies Stern left. There's not a doubt in my mind he didn't want a strong team in LA to boost ratings, increase the value of the next TV contract, and grow the global footprint of the league by having one of the most popular players (Kobe) also in the championship spotlight.

 

[Revolution 9]

Again, top ten based on what? He isn't an elite offensive player and he plays on the best defense in the league next to the likely DPOY and actual best defensive player Roy Hibbert. Feel free to discredit it with statistical data, but how many top ten players go 2 months shooting under 40%?

Top ten in dunking, hype, and Lebronish in the playoffs.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Based on he is a top-10 player. So he had a bad month and a half. If we drafted, I would take him in the top 10. I don't see him falling out of the top 10 anytime soon. He is the best player on a top team. He is the best defensive player on a top defensive team. Offensively he isn't elite, but he is pretty good.

No way is he the best defender on Indiana. Hibbert is the key to that team, and everyone knows it. Paul George is definitely not a superstar IMO-- but it's fine, because they don't need him to be. Just get a lot of versatile, offensively-capable scorers on a team; put it together with a stifling defense = 2004 Pistons. Was Rip the superstar for the Pistons during that era? He didn't even make the all-star team until 2006, despite averaging 17-20ppg.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

No way is he the best defender on Indiana. Hibbert is the key to that team, and everyone knows it. Paul George is definitely not a superstar IMO-- but it's fine, because they don't need him to be. Just get a lot of versatile, offensively-capable scorers on a team; put it together with a stifling defense = 2004 Pistons. Was Rip the superstar for the Pistons during that era? He didn't even make the all-star team until 2006, despite averaging 17-20ppg.

Best perimeter defender, is that better?

Super-star fo'sho.

Lol at using Rip to support.

George does everything on the court and plays both sides of the ball. He is pretty efficient because he shoots from deep well. The only thing that holds him back from being a bonafide perennial top 5 player is that he doesn't get to the line that well. On top of all that, he is still making substantial year-to-year improvements. He has increased his PPG by 5 points each season and is having his most efficient season this year despite being the #1 option.

 

[SojoDave]

I heard an interview on the radio with DL. They asked him is the key to winning a championship getting a star player? His response is no, look at what Detroit did. We are looking at that model of getting a lot of very good players and get them to buy into a team concept. If we get a star in the next 5 years, it will be completely by accident.

 

[Jazz4ever]

I heard an interview on the radio with DL. They asked him is the key to winning a championship getting a star player? His response is no, look at what Detroit did. We are looking at that model of getting a lot of very good players and get them to buy into a team concept. If we get a star in the next 5 years, it will be completely by accident.

I doubt DL believes that for one second, but what else can he say.

 

[Fabtrey]

reported for disrespecting our great white hype gordon hayward

 

[Stifle Tower]

I heard an interview on the radio with DL. They asked him is the key to winning a championship getting a star player? His response is no, look at what Detroit did. We are looking at that model of getting a lot of very good players and get them to buy into a team concept. If we get a star in the next 5 years, it will be completely by accident.

When and what station?

 

[infection]

I heard an interview on the radio with DL. They asked him is the key to winning a championship getting a star player? His response is no, look at what Detroit did. We are looking at that model of getting a lot of very good players and get them to buy into a team concept. If we get a star in the next 5 years, it will be completely by accident.

I was actually thinking of the '99 Spurs model. They had a 5'10" PG and a white seven-footer who used to play for the Bulls. We could probably go out and land Isaiah Thomas and Omer Asik by only giving up a couple core pieces.

 

[Tarkanian]

Bringing in a superstar alone won't cut it, if that star will be a PF or a C.
Jazz need spacing and for that you have to bring in some dead-eye shooters.
Team-engineering 101!
We need a player like -say- Courtney Lee.

 

[ljnapoli]

We aren't getting a Star.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

If it's so easy to tank for the Jazz, isn't it just as easy for the other teams? I mean, right now, we're ahead of the Lakers and the Sixers, whom we just played. Suppose our FO rested whomever the pro-tank crew believes is leading us to victory this week(I can't keep track, you people keep changing your mind...Jefferson, Marvin, Hayward, Burks). What the hell is stopping the Sixers, who want a top-3 pick just as hard, from resting whatever players they have?

Agreed. The sad fact is that the Jazz are simply better than the 76ers, Bucks, Lakers, Orlando, probably Sacramento, and possibly Cavaliers, Detroit, and Celtics. The FO tried to build a team this year that would compete in the race to the bottom, but it turns our young guys are better than the other teams' young guys. That's both bad and good. Good in that it signals future competitiveness, bad in that this is a bad year to be bad. What some of your are calling for here, outright tanking games, simply won't happen. Corbin won't intentionally lose games when he's in a contract year, and the players who are playing for playing time and future contracts won't intentionally lose games. JimLes is right, were we to outright tank games, what would keep the other teams from doing the same? Unfortunately, despite the FO's best efforts, we simply aren't bad enough this year. It's probably time to accept this, rather than continue to waste emotional energy wailing and gnashing your teeth pining for something that isn't going to happen. It's too bad, but it is what it is.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Best perimeter defender, is that better?

Super-star fo'sho.

Lol at using Rip to support.

George does everything on the court and plays both sides of the ball. He is pretty efficient because he shoots from deep well. The only thing that holds him back from being a bonafide perennial top 5 player is that he doesn't get to the line that well. On top of all that, he is still making substantial year-to-year improvements. He has increased his PPG by 5 points each season and is having his most efficient season this year despite being the #1 option.

"The only thing holding him back" is that he is their team's top-scorer, and probably their first option on offense-- which is why Indiana still remains a bottom 10 NBA offense.

His defense is elite, his offense is not. He is not a franchise-changing player. If we dropped Hayward, and we picked up Paul George, would our team instantly be among the best? Now replace that comparison with the "real" superstars (Durant, Lebron, Chris Paul, Curry, even Hibbert).

Definitely not a superstar.