If I were the Knicks I'd offer Amar'e + Lin + draft picks for DWill (if the Nets are desperate enough).
Win win for both Knicks and Nets.
That'll definitely beat our offer...
Deron is coming back to Utah.
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If I were the Knicks I'd offer Amar'e + Lin + draft picks for DWill (if the Nets are desperate enough).
Win win for both Knicks and Nets.
That'll definitely beat our offer...
Amare is a cap killer with injury problems, no insurance and declining production. That's one of the worst contracts in the league. The Nets would be doing the Knicks a favor on that one. Also, don't get carried away by Lin. He's a nice underdog story, especially as an Asian American, but that's all hype. You can do better with Dragic.
And there's just no finagling way I trade DWill to my big brother in Manhattan if I'm the Nets. There couldn't be a more insulting outcome, unless they offer Carmello.
That's why if I were the Knicks I'd propose it to King - knowing that King could lose DWill for nothing in a couple of month's time. It's a save each other sort of situation. Nets absorb the contract but at the same time get a productive player, Lin who is OK as a PG and a few picks to build on.
Granted Amar'e has a huge contract with an iffy knee. But at least they won't be left with nothing at the end of the day. You'd have Lopez, Amar'e, Morrow, Brooks & Lin. And that's a pretty competitive team, IMO.
It's better than losing DWill for nothing is what I'm saying, and also better what Jazz can offer IMO.
orangello
Well-Known Member
I just want to point out one thing to everyone. The Jazz went out and got Jefferson to make DWill happy. It didn't work out as planned. Now we are stuck with Jefferson for another year possibly and the Jazz have an up and coming near all star talent player getting close to 25 minutes a game. On top of that we lost a pick in this year's draft that arguably is one of the deeper drafts in the last 15 years.
I would take DWill back though. He would make this team currently constituted a top 4 team in the West.
The one thing that makes me hesitant is the possible Hayward/DWill conflict. It might be one or the other. With the way that Hayward is developing I would take him over DWill. Crazy, I know.
I would take DWill back though. He would make this team currently constituted a top 4 team in the West.
The one thing that makes me hesitant is the possible Hayward/DWill conflict. It might be one or the other. With the way that Hayward is developing I would take him over DWill. Crazy, I know.
Amare had 9 pts and 5 rebs in 32 minutes yesterday. At $80 million left on his deal, he's the new Elton Brand. Not the way to rebuild your franchise. The Jazz could offer a decent package by comparison.
I just asked this exact question to Brian T Smith via his video chat today...
.. and sure enough he said he can't see Deron coming back to Utah Jazz again (not unless KOC is still the GM). May be in 7-10 years time when all the management is changed, but otherwise no.
.. and sure enough he said he can't see Deron coming back to Utah Jazz again (not unless KOC is still the GM). May be in 7-10 years time when all the management is changed, but otherwise no.
orangello
Well-Known Member
Another thought. If it was my money I would not target DWill. I would take that money and go get Harden.
It is a win win for the Jazz. Either the Thunder match and they kill their cap space going further and lose the low post presence that they have, or they let Harden walk and he comes to the Jazz. Harden can play PG as well as Harris. He also shoots better and gets to the line much more. He could be the missing piece as much as DWill is.
Edit: Harden will also be cheaper than DWill.
It is a win win for the Jazz. Either the Thunder match and they kill their cap space going further and lose the low post presence that they have, or they let Harden walk and he comes to the Jazz. Harden can play PG as well as Harris. He also shoots better and gets to the line much more. He could be the missing piece as much as DWill is.
Edit: Harden will also be cheaper than DWill.
The problem with the Jazz at the beginning of last year was the lack of interior defense and the lack of outside shooting. We still need shooting, but Favors & Kanter are better than Jefferson & Okur. Plus, Burks replaces Matthews and Hayward is improving. DWill/Hayward/Shooter/Favors/Kanter is top-4 in the west imo.
The situation with the GSW pick is out of our control, but as for the 13th or 14th pick in this draft, maybe we get Lillard, Terrence Jones or Terrence Ross, but it's questionable whether that takes us to the next level. Those players need a couple years to develop also.
Okay, it sounds like there was just too big a meltdown with management.
blackham9258
Member
Couple things: Deron would come back only if he wanted to come back.. For Deron to want to come back is a huge personal step, one that says he has swallowed his pride. Whatever relationships needed to be mended he would do the work to mend. That said, getting him would be relatively easy. We send Devin to Portland/Indiana for a pick and amnesty Bell and we have $17+M to throw at him all while keeping everyone else. We would then extend Millsap for hopefully around $8M a year. Then we could ask Jefferson... do you want to reup for $8 or $9M or do you want to be traded? I would expect Millsap to want $9 or $10M per which would mean we send Jefferson out for picks and backups. I would go after someone like Humphries.
As far as NJ they are going to lose him for nothing to Dallas anyway and all they will get there is a trade exception.
My personal feeling is that the league should set a bar: if you lose an all nba player you get a compensatory pick at #15 or #7 or something. Kind of like they do when new franchises start... they automatically give them a #4 pick.
I would love to see Deron come back because I know that the only way he comes back is if he is humble enough to want to... it wouldn't be a scenario of us pursuing him. KOC might make a simple call to his agent and say hey... we would be interested if Deron feels that we give him the best long term opportunity to compete for a championship (which we do). I can't think of a place that Deron would be better suited going forward, but only if he is willing to be a humble leader.
You just don't say no to an all nba player... period!
As far as NJ they are going to lose him for nothing to Dallas anyway and all they will get there is a trade exception.
My personal feeling is that the league should set a bar: if you lose an all nba player you get a compensatory pick at #15 or #7 or something. Kind of like they do when new franchises start... they automatically give them a #4 pick.
I would love to see Deron come back because I know that the only way he comes back is if he is humble enough to want to... it wouldn't be a scenario of us pursuing him. KOC might make a simple call to his agent and say hey... we would be interested if Deron feels that we give him the best long term opportunity to compete for a championship (which we do). I can't think of a place that Deron would be better suited going forward, but only if he is willing to be a humble leader.
You just don't say no to an all nba player... period!
Thanks for that carefully thought out scenario..
Question: How can KOC look Billy King in the eye the next time they meet? It'll be the most awkward situation ever... may be something like this?
KOC: Hey Billy.. long time no see!
Billy King: Hey Kevin.. how's Deron working out for you? How did it feel to take Favors, Kanter, Harris from us and still have the tenacity to call Deron's agent to sell him on going back to Salt Lake? We were working on a sign & trade to get him to NY/Dallas/Lakers and now he just said 'NO'. And you know what his reason was Kevin? His EXACT words were because "The Jazz is willing to give me a 2nd chance in Utah"
KOC: Life happens Billy..
Billy King: Classy Kevin.. classy.. don't bother calling me ever again.
Right. That's why we'd have to offer a better package than NY/Dallas/Lakers. NY might offer Amare. The Lakers might offer Pau Gasol. Dallas might offer....idk......nothing significant. We would have to give up the GSW pick, probably Millsap, etc.
seattlejazzfan
Well-Known Member
You're really going there? Stats are basically the same? Let's forget for a moment that Burks got his stats on a playoff team.
That because GS was going nowhere, Thompson got a lot more minutes (despite the difference in minutes, Burks shot about 50% more FTs and rebounds were even) and the biggest advantage was that Thompson had absolute freedom on that team, given the green light most of the season. And Burks is two years younger.
Definitely a no-brainer to trade Burks for Thompson.
blackham9258
Member
Why does everyone think it matters what Billy King thinks. I remember reading a direct quote from Chad Ford when the Boozer deal went down. He said, "KOC's reputation about being above board was so set league wide that no one questioned the deal when it happened." Meaning, no one thought for a second that KOC tampered. Everyone saw it for what it truly was, Cleveland was trying to cheat a player and cheat the system and it blew up in their face. And again no one questioned KOC.
Billy King rolled the dice big! It was DWill the other day who said that he didn't ask to be traded to NJ. He will be an unrestricted free agent and he will give the Nets 1 month to make a move with Orlando, if Orlando extends Dwight or trades him to LAL, its over and he will move on to the team of his choice. That is the point, if Billy King fails this off season to re up Deron or make the trade Deron will leave. Where to doesn't matter because Deron will basically say... sorry I am not resigning... I am going to another team and then it doesn't matter where he goes. Everyone will think it will be Dallas, if Deron changes his mind and chooses the Jazz... fine.
There will be nothing but a team getting an all star because his own team failed to resign him and give him a reason to resign. There is simply a failure by an organization to keep their star... more so than a star and a former team and GM cheating the system.
Also, Billy King knows full well that Deron didn't like how he left the Jazz and doesn't want to come back. So frankly again if Deron has a change of heart everyone will see that for what it was, a change of heart.
Billy King is the one in the hot seat.
I still believe Deron will resign with NJ because he could get a full $100M. But if he truly wants a winning situation long term he should really take a look at Utah. I believe he has too much pride to come back though.
Billy King rolled the dice big! It was DWill the other day who said that he didn't ask to be traded to NJ. He will be an unrestricted free agent and he will give the Nets 1 month to make a move with Orlando, if Orlando extends Dwight or trades him to LAL, its over and he will move on to the team of his choice. That is the point, if Billy King fails this off season to re up Deron or make the trade Deron will leave. Where to doesn't matter because Deron will basically say... sorry I am not resigning... I am going to another team and then it doesn't matter where he goes. Everyone will think it will be Dallas, if Deron changes his mind and chooses the Jazz... fine.
There will be nothing but a team getting an all star because his own team failed to resign him and give him a reason to resign. There is simply a failure by an organization to keep their star... more so than a star and a former team and GM cheating the system.
Also, Billy King knows full well that Deron didn't like how he left the Jazz and doesn't want to come back. So frankly again if Deron has a change of heart everyone will see that for what it was, a change of heart.
Billy King is the one in the hot seat.
I still believe Deron will resign with NJ because he could get a full $100M. But if he truly wants a winning situation long term he should really take a look at Utah. I believe he has too much pride to come back though.
The Boozer signing was a different situation all together. It was widely known throughout the league that the then Cavs GM Jim Paxson was to blame for that technical blunder. He was basically deceived by Boozer and his agent. KOC on the other hand was praised for his ingenuity and he definitely played by the rule by offering Boozer that contract. To quote Chad Ford:
There was no sleazy back stabbing at play there. He did what he could with what he had.
Relationship with King on the other hand is something that KOC had obviously built on and he must have valued it because kept going there (i.e., the Okur trade that fetched us the trade exception for basically a guy who couldn't play any more).
Well, if Orlando trades Howard to the Lakers like they once threatened to do, and DWill is motivated to go there....hm.
Orlando's a mess though. They've still got Hedo on their books, since they used their amnesty on Arenas. They don't have money to recruit DWill, so scratch that one off.
Orlando's a mess though. They've still got Hedo on their books, since they used their amnesty on Arenas. They don't have money to recruit DWill, so scratch that one off.
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bjunior
Well-Known Member
NJ had their chance with DWill. A chance to build quickly a contender team.
To have that chance they had to pay - Favors, Harris, the pick.
Now, it's their problem what they did with that chance.
The time has passed - DWill coming to UTAH has nothing with GM's relationships. If he comes. I mean KOC has all the rights to pick up the phone.
To have that chance they had to pay - Favors, Harris, the pick.
Now, it's their problem what they did with that chance.
The time has passed - DWill coming to UTAH has nothing with GM's relationships. If he comes. I mean KOC has all the rights to pick up the phone.
fallenchicken
Well-Known Member
U guys r retarded.
I think the idea that we are the "best" chance for Deron to have a long-term championship window is a stretch. The teams out there with deeper pockets can turn into contenders overnight in the current NBA landscape. Whereas the Jazz and other small-market teams have to do everything right every step of the way to turn scarce financial resources into a stacked, well-balanced lineup that can legitimately compete for a championship.
Nevertheless, we do have an unusual surplus of young talent and could easily flip some of our assets into a top-flight PG/another body on the wing and become a contender in the very near future. Plus, Deron and his family are comfortable in Utah and like it here.
Given the way his exit went down, I'd be shocked to ever see him in a Jazz uniform again. We can't forget that there seemed to be a real fracture in the relationship between Deron and the Jazz coaching staff/front-office. Who knows what really went on behind closed doors, none of us are privy to it, but from the outside it seems like there would have to be some serious ego soothing/mutual understandings between all parties involved for that to happen.
As far as KOC "backstabbing" Billy King or what not - I don't think that would play any part in this. The Jazz brass is first-class, people know this league-wide. All parties involved would know that DWill's "shocking" return to the Jazz wasn't some premeditated effort to screw over the Nets. Plus, I'm sure KOC would assemble a nice sign-and-trade with NJ to soften the blow.
Nevertheless, we do have an unusual surplus of young talent and could easily flip some of our assets into a top-flight PG/another body on the wing and become a contender in the very near future. Plus, Deron and his family are comfortable in Utah and like it here.
Given the way his exit went down, I'd be shocked to ever see him in a Jazz uniform again. We can't forget that there seemed to be a real fracture in the relationship between Deron and the Jazz coaching staff/front-office. Who knows what really went on behind closed doors, none of us are privy to it, but from the outside it seems like there would have to be some serious ego soothing/mutual understandings between all parties involved for that to happen.
As far as KOC "backstabbing" Billy King or what not - I don't think that would play any part in this. The Jazz brass is first-class, people know this league-wide. All parties involved would know that DWill's "shocking" return to the Jazz wasn't some premeditated effort to screw over the Nets. Plus, I'm sure KOC would assemble a nice sign-and-trade with NJ to soften the blow.