Derrick Williams or Enes Kanter?

[Ben10]

Lebron is using every clutch shot in everygame for the last 6 yrs with least mistake.

Lebron has actually been pretty poor in clutch and game winning situations. It was very well documented this year and in the playoffs past.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Closer to Al Horford? Have you watched Derrick Williams play? You sir are an idiot.

Al Horford is a comparison I'd make for Kanter.

 

[sepanol]

Yeah, I'm thinking the Jazz have to take whichever falls of Irving, Williams, or Kanter. And then they can trade, or not. I actually am becoming more convinced of Williams - but I'm still not sure about him at the 3. The fact that he's talking like he's a 3 is good I think though. But yeah, talk is cheap. He's gotta actually be able to man the position. Hope so 'cause his value in the league will be greater as a trade piece, or a Utah Jazz stud.

what i think, we should actually build a new team without getting stuck to what we have now. And we make a team, set on hayward, favors plust this years draft. And i think derrick is a good finisher. But we dont need a finisher at 3. if barnes was in draft, i would like to pick him at 3, but i think Enes will fit the core of hayward , favors much better than williams, and he has the ability to be a go to guy. I just dont see jefferson as a part of our future if we wanna be contender in a few yrs.
Otherwise, if we wanna be a playoff team like the last 5 yrs, then yeah, lets draft williams, lets use jefferson favors in the front, and harris at the back. This team will make playoffs and maybe derrick will perform very well in this first year thanks to his phsyic but we wont go more than that.

 

[sepanol]

Lebron has actually been pretty poor in clutch and game winning situations. It was very well documented this year and in the playoffs past.

guy carried the compilation of worst players in the league to the top of the league. And he didnt get any help in any position. and i think the last game i watched, miami chicago, lebron just took over the game at the last 3-4 mins.
Dont take me wrong, i m not a lebron fan, and i dont even like him, but its really , really ridiculous to compare derrick to lebron for me.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

guys come on, i think ure dreaming. Right now im watching his highlights again and again thinking if im mistaking , if everyone is right and im wrong. Ok i take my word back about Al horford, but this guy is like a strong Richard jefferson. He finishes very strong, he shoots 3s sometimes, but he cant create anythng on his own . How will he take over games at the end? Even jefferson producing something as a go to guy. This guy is nothing close to a go to guy.

Did you watch any of the NCAA tournament?

 

[Ben10]

guy carried the compilation of worst players in the league to the top of the league. And he didnt get any help in any position. and i think the last game i watched, miami chicago, lebron just took over the game at the last 3-4 mins.
Dont take me wrong, i m not a lebron fan, and i dont even like him, but its really , really ridiculous to compare derrick to lebron for me.

I think your taking my post the wrong way. Lebron is the most complete player in the league. What he did with Cleveland and what he can do on the floor is for the most part unmatched in the NBA. He doesn't just score, He passes, rebounds, and makes the guys around him so much better.
Your definition of Clutch and mine might be different. Clutch to me is game on the line or a shot or play has to be made in order to win the game. This is were Lebron has been average. Not bad, but not great ether. That is why he stated that he needed those other guys on the Heat (Wade, Bosh) to be able to win the series against the Celtics this year.

 

[sepanol]

My answer to this is YET. Williams has a lot to prove this is true. But as a high level athlete with a great motor I wouldn't put it past him to get there in the next 3 years or so. I don't think there is a single guy in the draft this year that can be a go to guy in a high level game in the next 2 years. So why not take the guy with the perceived biggest upside?

As for Credit I well give you this: You know more about one prospect in Kanter than anyone on this board knows about any of the other prospects. Giving you a good Idea what he is capable of. Because of that you can argue with the Jazz taking him over anyone else and be very sure that your argument is very factual. Giving you an advantage over almost all of us in that argument.
But that also has completely made up your mind that Kanter should be the pick the Jazz make no mater what. Most of us on the other hand are not so sure. If the Jazz take Kanter and he is the player u claim he is and can become then You well be highly praised and hit Honz status with the Hayward pick. But if your wrong and Kanter doesn't pan out then credit well be hard to come by in the future.

thats my point actually, about the IF HE IS THE PLAYER .....
i may talk not objectively as u guys do since he is my countryman, but what i see is, he has this ceiling which derrick doesnt have. So we dont know who will be better. Maybe kanter will have injury problem and he will be another Oden. But i just see the potential and thats what makes me so excited.
Because he is very different than other players in Turkey. He was 15 and commentators were telling, there is such a player, he may go to nba in future, very talented blabla...

In nba, there are other 4 turkish players which are more or less good players. You know how memo is better than me, and hedo was really great in nba finals 2 yrs ago. Ersan was even better in europe but he couldnt translate his game to nba yet. other guys are rookie and one of them is shining in Chicago. But none of them were regarded sooooo highly as Enes. And all them were second round pick as i remember.

And european players have actually good fundementals, because the game is based on tactics rather than atheletism. I understand many people is biased against them cuz of Darko and some other... but lets not forget Ginobili, Parker, Gasol, Nowitzki. They werent drafted so high but they are the elite players. I just see the Nowitzki potential in enes, thats why i defend him so much, otherwise we cant know the future, maybe he will just be a disappointment, but what if he is gonna be a next nowitzki?

 

[sepanol]

Did you watch any of the NCAA tournament?

yes and i liked brandon knight and wished he uk will be eliminated early so we can draft him with the 12th pick. But now i see its impossible, at least with 12th pick.
I didnt see many of arizona games, but derrick williams didint impress me so much.

Irving, Leonard and B Knight made me more impressed. And i thought its weird why terrence jones was regarded so highly, he didnt impress me at all. Anyway he isnt in the draft.

 

[Ben10]

otherwise we cant know the future, maybe he will just be a disappointment, but what if he is gonna be a next nowitzki?

U nailed it right on the head. Kanter could be one of those 2 things for sure. My guess is someplace between them. (I do hope for him its closer to the Nowitzki end). But remember that you seeing Nowitzki in Kanter is just like the Guys that are saying Williams could be the Next Paul Pierce/Carmello Anthony. Pierce would be a great guy to have when you have a front line of Favors and Jefferson already in place don't you think?

Just like you said no one can tell the future.

 

[BENTLEY]

Y'know we don't have a choice. Jazz get whoever is left at 3. That's still pretty awesome, and makes all this debate over who to select rather pointless. But something to do.

 

[sepanol]

U nailed it right on the head. Kanter could be one of those 2 things for sure. My guess is someplace between them. (I do hope for him its closer to the Nowitzki end). But remember that you seeing Nowitzki in Kanter is just like the Guys that are saying Williams could be the Next Paul Pierce/Carmello Anthony. Pierce would be a great guy to have when you have a front line of Favors and Jefferson already in place don't you think?

Just like you said no one can tell the future.

yes , but my point is due to unexpected circumstances. I see kanters potential highly, but i cant say the same for derrick. He may be an allstar at best for me. Because he cant create on his own. To be a carmelo or pierce, u gotta make individual plays consistently. Derrick is like a very good finisher. And he would be good playing with deron or paul. But i dont think thats what we need now. I just dont see the potential in him.

My favourites are Irving and kanter this year, as superstar potential
and Valanciunas, Leonard, Knight can be very good assets as a role player in my opinion.
and i think walker, fredette will suck.
Thats my opinions about this years draft

 

[Ben10]

Y'know we don't have a choice. Jazz get whoever is left at 3. That's still pretty awesome, and makes all this debate over who to select rather pointless. But something to do.

Way to come in and throw logic into a good conversation there Bentley

 

[sepanol]

Y'know we don't have a choice. Jazz get whoever is left at 3. That's still pretty awesome, and makes all this debate over who to select rather pointless. But something to do.

but u know, i expect another move from KOC, like getting knight by giving 12 th pick plus a player or smthng. We should convert the bad aura of this draft into smthng good. Everyone says its a weak draft so teams are more willing to trade their picks.

The worst draft i have seen in the last yrs was the one with Bargnani was 1. There was no good player at all. But Portland got Lamarcus n Roy, and builded a new team. We can do actually better than that

 

[BENTLEY]

It'll be interesting to see. I'm really interested in obtaining 2012 picks. I'm still hard for Barnes, or if not him there are a plethora of consolation prize wings.

 

[Ben10]

yes , but my point is due to unexpected circumstances. I see kanters potential highly, but i cant say the same for derrick. He may be an allstar at best for me. Because he cant create on his own. To be a carmelo or pierce, u gotta make individual plays consistently. Derrick is like a very good finisher. And he would be good playing with deron or paul. But i dont think thats what we need now. I just dont see the potential in him.

Again this is a point of view. I see Kanter has potential to be a skilled big man. But to me looks kinda slow and may not be able to get his shot of around the rim with NBA defenders on him. Williams is a freak athlete who I see all kinds of potential in. Explosive, great first step and those to things at the NBA level are hard to stop. Plus the guys is a proven gym rat that works his tail off. I wouldn't put being an allstar out of reach for Williams at all. But like Bentley said. We well pob get one or the other with out it being our choice. And I would be just fine with ether. (as long as Kanter checks out medically)

 

[vslice02]

My favourites are Irving and kanter this year, as superstar potential

Could you clarify what you consider "superstar potential." I know you're high on Kanter - but when I think "superstar" - I think about the top 10-15 players in the NBA.
Personally, I don't think either Irving or Kanter is close to a lock at becoming a top-10 player at their position.

 

[sepanol]

Again this is a point of view. I see Kanter has potential to be a skilled big man. But to me looks kinda slow and may not be able to get his shot of around the rim with NBA defenders on him. Williams is a freak athlete who I see all kinds of potential in. Explosive, great first step and those to things at the NBA level are hard to stop. Plus the guys is a proven gym rat that works his tail off. I wouldn't put being an allstar out of reach for Williams at all. But like Bentley said. We well pob get one or the other with out it being our choice. And I would be just fine with ether. (as long as Kanter checks out medically)

i think so too, we are extremely lucky we got 3, considering very good players declared not to enter draft. But european players already arent so atheletic, except french since most of them are african based. But euro players have very good skills. Nowitzki isnt that fast too but he knows what to do. We dont have a point guard to conver his athletism into advantage right now, and obviously, he doesnt seem to create his own shot so much. He can play really good in new jersey or new orleans,, or even phoenix but not utah, thats my opinion. Anyway this discussion will continue forever, but lets hope best for the jazz. Im not jazz fan becuz of memo, and nothing will change if we dont pick kanter. Just we will see, i hope we dont screw this big gift God sent us. the 3rd pick.

 

[LogGrad98]

hahaha, its funny, everyone is stuck in a stupid translation. i wrote the meaning above, lets not mess the topic. I claim that, Derrick williams cant be a go to guy in high level games. I wanna hear peoples opinions about that? Am i wrong? am i still Kanters agent? or will anyone give me a little bit credit ?

My answer to this is YET. Williams has a lot to prove this is true. But as a high level athlete with a great motor I wouldn't put it past him to get there in the next 3 years or so. I don't think there is a single guy in the draft this year that can be a go to guy in a high level game in the next 2 years. So why not take the guy with the perceived biggest upside?

Really this applies to all of them. None of them have "proven" they can be the go-to guy in an NBA level game. We can make our best guesses, but nothing has been proven yet.

As far as Kanter is concerned, personally I am afraid of any big man with such early issues with knee injuries. Knees are tough to recover from and often do not bode well for the future of the player.

But I generally agree with the assessments here that the top 3 players are probably Kanter, Irving, and Williams. I think we draft whichever of these is available at 3 and either incorporate them or trade them. Either way it is our best move, unless we can trade the #3 for an all-star and/or multiple lottery picks in the 2012 draft.

 

[sepanol]

Could you clarify what you consider "superstar potential." I know you're high on Kanter - but when I think "superstar" - I think about the top 10-15 players in the NBA.
Personally, I don't think either Irving or Kanter is close to a lock at becoming a top-10 player at their position.

i think irving can be superstar. If u put paul in this 10-15 players level, i think u shoud include irving as well. Im just talking about the potential. Harris had a very good potential too, and he was drafted like 6-7 i guess, im not sure. But he cant close out games, he cant take responsibility, and he thinks more about scoring than passing. So he couldnt accomplish his potential. We will see that about irving. I disagree that they r not gonna be top 10 at that position. There isnt 10 very good pgs in the league already. Rose , deron, paul, lets say wall as young one (i dont include tyreke) , kidd and nash is already grandfathers. So who else? Maybe billups. Im 100% sure irving will be there. And kanter, my opinion is clear, i think he can be better than Kevin love, and eventually become another nowitzki.

 

[sepanol]

Really this applies to all of them. None of them have "proven" they can be the go-to guy in an NBA level game. We can make our best guesses, but nothing has been proven yet.

As far as Kanter is concerned, personally I am afraid of any big man with such early issues with knee injuries. Knees are tough to recover from and often do not bode well for the future of the player.

But I generally agree with the assessments here that the top 3 players are probably Kanter, Irving, and Williams. I think we draft whichever of these is available at 3 and either incorporate them or trade them. Either way it is our best move, unless we can trade the #3 for an all-star and/or multiple lottery picks in the 2012 draft.

A very logical explanation. i think noone would argue that