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Do the Jazz abandon "the process" this summer?

The team is in a strange position. We have a very good core that is currently on pace to be playoff regulars but unlikely to become a true championship contender due to the lack of a star. We also have money to spend but an inability to acquire that missing star via FA. We also have a necessity to win now because of Hayward's opt-out clause.

The FO is going to have to decide whether to attempt to acquire a star caliber player via trade by condensing assets or build a deep team of players that compliment eachother well. This is an extremely important off-season as we seem to be at somewhat of a crossroad (primarily due to Hayward's ability to opt-out after next season).
 
Barnes is shooting 3/22 in the playoffs and the majority of that is while being guarded by Harden.

He's trash - when he has to play without Curry/Green/Thompson, he's especially trash, and when he was injured for a large chunk of games the Warriors didn't skip a beat.

Being able to score at moderate efficiency when the other team is more focused on stopping three other guys does not a max player make.
 
karl malone said:
The team is in a strange position. We have a very good core that is currently on pace to be playoff regulars but unlikely to become a true championship contender due to the lack of a star. We also have money to spend but an inability to acquire that missing star via FA. We also have a necessity to win now because of Hayward's opt-out clause.

The FO is going to have to decide whether to attempt to acquire a star caliber player via trade by condensing assets or build a deep team of players that compliment eachother well. This is an extremely important off-season as we seem to be at somewhat of a crossroad (primarily due to Hayward's ability to opt-out after next season).
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I completely agree.
If the Bulls are shopping Jimmy Butler, what do you give up for him? Does he make the team a championship caliber squad?




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KD's Framily said:
Barnes is shooting 3/22 in the playoffs and the majority of that is while being guarded by Harden.

He's trash - when he has to play without Curry/Green/Thompson, he's especially trash, and when he was injured for a large chunk of games the Warriors didn't skip a beat.

Being able to score at moderate efficiency when the other team is more focused on stopping three other guys does not a max player make.
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I wouldn't go as far as trash, but he isn't a guy I would offer a max to in a million years.
 
PG_AB said:
Look at this minutes distribution I posted in another thread.. all of those players minutes you listed end up getting pushed to Lyles and Harrison Barnes

PG - Exum (23) - Mack (9) - Neto (8) - Burks (8)
SG -Hayward (25) Burks (17) - Hood (6) - Burke (0)
SF -Barnes (19) Hood(23) Hayward (6) - Ingles (0)
PF -Favors (15) Lyles (23) Barnes (10) - 2nd round pick (0)
C - Gobert (29) Favors (14) 1st rd pick (5) Withey (0)
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Not terrible. I would put Exum at more like 27 a night or so but that's splitting hairs. My biggest issues with all this are having Favors at the 5 for 14 minutes (if it's against backups then cool) and maxing Barnes. I'm not down for that. At ****ing all. It's a stupid move imo because once we want to re-up Hayward, Hood, Favors, Gobert and Exum, all guys who I think are or will be better either overall or in their roles, we'll be ****ed. Oh yeah and then there's Burks and signing another 8 or so guys to fill out a roster.
 
PG_AB said:
don't think this is sound logic..

Signing Barnes in my estimation is adding as much affordable young talent as there is to be had this summer. why overlook that?? thats of the highest priority IMO.. If you've got a plan to add a star, make a thread with the idea..

PErhaps this is crazy; but I figure the more good players you have, the better the team is.. I've already coverd where his minutes and 3pointers would come from.. not 'the core'

They don't want to end up in the lottery again next year(i think) So why not a young starter on a championship team, whos underutilized but capable of more, he takes good shots, he's quite athletic, has good fakes on his J and around the basket, and is used to operating in a lesser role..

It's also not crushing to the flexibility, because in my estimation there would still be teams looking to take on Barnes for expirings if things went sour, so they could cash out.. he's still 23!

Rudy being restricted next offseason means that if he intends to resign, they can wait to handle Hayward's contract first, then they can sign Rudy and go over the cap, which would be around 100mil..

Teams are doing that these days.. it's why Brad Beal doesn't have an extension done yet, so they have $$$ for Durant..

With a PF/C type from the 12th pick the PG situation will be the only potential weakness (if the 1st round pick is good) going into the best offseason to find a PG in the draft or free agency..

This streamlines the roster, adds talent, this move would be too good be true actually.. It's not going to happen if it did it'd be the rich getting richer though..
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I don't think you understand the implications of maxing a player that's nowhere near worth it. It can lead to a very painful treadmill. There is no "out" by trading them away short of adding 1st round picks. And a small market without picks is what in the NBA? Nothing.
 
spycam1 said:
I tend to agree with PGAB on this. I don't think Harrison Barnes is the only viable option, but he is certainly one of them--and one that is actually realistic.

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Everyone strays down a dark path at one time or another. I will pray for you.
 
PG_AB said:
Look at this minutes distribution I posted in another thread.. all of those players minutes you listed end up getting pushed to Lyles and Harrison Barnes

PG - Exum (23) - Mack (9) - Neto (8) - Burks (8)
SG -Hayward (25) Burks (17) - Hood (6) - Burke (0)
SF -Barnes (19) Hood(23) Hayward (6) - Ingles (0)
PF -Favors (15) Lyles (23) Barnes (10) - 2nd round pick (0)
C - Gobert (29) Favors (14) 1st rd pick (5) Withey (0)
Click to expand...


PG - Exum (24) - Burks (24) - Mack (insurance) - Neto (insurance) - Burke (Trade)
SG -Hayward (25) - Hood (17) - Burks (6)
SF -Barnes (30) Hood(13) Hayward (5) - Ingles (insurance)
PF -Favors (15) Lyles (23) - 1st round pick (10)
C - Gobert (29) Favors (14) 1st rd pick (5) Withey (insurance)
 
#bern said:
Most NBA players can make open shots without somebody guarding them. Hell, Shaq was a good FT shooter in practices. None of that matters til the game starts.
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I remember going to a jazz game and watching ostertag shoot about 70% from three during warmups.

I also worked with a guy who was ronnie price's cousin and my company had a three on three tournament and price showed up just to hang out and watch. Before the games started we were all just shooting around and ronnie price was shooting with us. He took and made a three and then took a step back and took and made that shot and then another step back. He did that like 10 times (at this point he was at about half court) before he finally missed.
Then he started back at the three point line and did it again. And again. It was amazing. He looked like the best shooter in the world.
Yet in the nba, one of his weaknesses was shooting.
 
and hell no to maxing barnes. about as stupid as it gets.

barnes last night in a playoff game without curry (a good time for him to step up btw): 3-7 from the field, 2 rebounds, 2 assists, zero blocks, zero steals, 24 minutes (zero fouls), 9 points and he is not a great defender. Doesnt get to the line much.

That dont equal max money.

He isnt a bad player but he is nowhere near a max player.
So far in 4 years in the league he 10 points, 4.5 rebounds, and 1.5 assists guy with ok shooting percentages. And he has not even improved much at all since his rookie year.
His rookie year he averaged 9.2 points, 4.1 rebounds and 1.2 point per game in 25.4 minutes.
This year he averages 11.7 point, 4.9 rebounds, and 1.8 assists per game in 30.9 minutes.

Per 36 rookie year is 13.1 points per game, 5.8 rebounds and 1.7 assists per game.
This year is 13.6 points, 5.7 rebounds and 2.1 assists per game.

You could make an argument based on stats that burks, hayward, and hood are all better than barnes and more deserving of a max deal than barnes.
 
The Jazz have left NBA hell and have stepped into NBA purgatory. It's time to **** or get off the pot. We either make a push or plan on starting over anyway.

We need another wing. We should have gotten one last summer. The FO can't sit on their hands again. Is that player Barnes? debatable. Will we have to overpay whoever we go after? yep. Is it better than trading away talent in a lateral move? yep.
 
fishonjazz said:
and hell no to maxing barnes. about as stupid as it gets.

barnes last night in a playoff game without curry (a good time for him to step up btw): 3-7 from the field, 2 rebounds, 2 assists, zero blocks, zero steals, 24 minutes (zero fouls), 9 points and he is not a great defender. Doesnt get to the line much.

That dont equal max money.
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Curry effect. Like Stockton/Malone effect back in the late 90s. Remember teams giving Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley more money than Stockton was making? They didn't look as good once they weren't playing for the best team in the West.
 
I was slightly tempted with the idea for Barnes...simply due to his size, age and potential...but I watched last nights game and man, what a rough game for him. He ain't worth max money...I dont know if he is worth 12
 
Crawlnstall said:
I was slightly tempted with the idea for Barnes...simply due to his size, age and potential...but I watched last nights game and man, what a rough game for him. He ain't worth max money...I dont know if he is worth 12
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Yep. compare barnes stats for his career so far against burks, hood, and hayward. Barnes might be worse than all three of our current guys.
 
SLCHooper said:
I completely agree.
If the Bulls are shopping Jimmy Butler, what do you give up for him? Does he make the team a championship caliber squad?




Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app
Click to expand...

Doubt it'd be enough, but I'd start with Hood/Lyles/#12(+Burks/future picks if nec). A starting 5 of Exum, Butler, Hayward, Favors, Gobert could be championship caliber depending on Exum & the ability to put a solid bench behind it. Acquiring a star such as Butler should be the 1st priority.
 
fishonjazz said:
Yep. compare barnes stats for his career so far against burks, hood, and hayward. Barnes might be worse than all three of our current guys.
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And the efficiency of Burks/Hood/Hayward would all skyrocket if they were playing with Curry/Thompson/Green.
 
PG_AB said:
Barnes(who's 23) stats are going up every year though.. Like Hayward and Favors at that point..
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I don't think I agree with this. Barnes scoring is a bit higher this season, but at a much lower efficiency (14.3 points per 40 minutes on 57.3 TS% last year vs 15.2 points per 40 minutes on 55.9 TS% this year). His rebounding per 40 minutes also took a noticeable dip (7.8 last year to 6.4 this year).

PG_AB said:
I'm convinced some fighting me on this just want to justify the Jazz being cheap somehow in their minds.
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There's a mile-wide gap between being cheap and paying the max to a bad player.
 
fishonjazz said:
I remember going to a jazz game and watching ostertag shoot about 70% from three during warmups.

I also worked with a guy who was ronnie price's cousin and my company had a three on three tournament and price showed up just to hang out and watch. Before the games started we were all just shooting around and ronnie price was shooting with us. He took and made a three and then took a step back and took and made that shot and then another step back. He did that like 10 times (at this point he was at about half court) before he finally missed.
Then he started back at the three point line and did it again. And again. It was amazing. He looked like the best shooter in the world.
Yet in the nba, one of his weaknesses was shooting.
Click to expand...

You guys remember Robert swift? I play in a league with him. 7 footer lottery pick and flamed out of the league. Watched him this week bang NBA threes. Open gym or no contest guys all of these guys can shoot.
 
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