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Donovan Mitchell unlikely to ask for trade per ESPN’s Brian Windhorst

Yeah but this is the half-assing way to guarantee a pick in the 12-16 range. Just good enough to get a crappy pick, and bad enough we are no fun to watch and cannot win anything. That is fan purgatory. We might as well be the Kings. I really hope we do something else, even if it is at the trade deadline. We need to swing for the fences in gathering assets to rebuild asap and make another run with all new faces, imo.
Defintiely not what I was advocating for, as 12-16 range in my nightmare. Maybe we just disagree on how good(or bad) the current team would be. I think they would still be really bad. And on the fringe of play-in contention at best when the deadline comes. With a horrible team around him, I'm honestly not sure how much Mitchell kills your lottery odds. I expect to have a realistic shot of landing in the top three of the draft next year no matter what.

Uhhhh… we don’t know that at all. Miami will do something… they won’t wait 12 months.
Fair. I should say that an offer on the level on Herro, Robinson, and some picks will always be out there. And if Miami made a different trade I'm not sad about missing out on that package at all.
 
I think a lot of us have been jaded by Haywards fake persona, hair, and smile. I hope DM is not the same and does want to win, and if it’s here, great.
I think we all naturally go to the “fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me”.
We don’t want to be Thor in the Thor / Loki relationship.
Maybe DM just wants to win and thinks we have a shot without Gobert and maybe Quin in the picture.
Am I naive? Maybe.
I think you are not far off. I really think Mitchell is driven first and foremost by status and acceptance by the established stars in the league. After that, having this be his team seems to be what drives him. As in the "build it up to tear it down" comment. Seems frustrated a bit he wasn't more involved in the decision-making. I think winning matters but I think these other things are more important, and frankly I think that is pretty common in the young stars of today's NBA. The changes to the all-star game highlight this the best. It is more about being in the "good ol' boys" club than it is about the game or the sport or the competition anymore. They are all already at the pinnacle. They have all the money in the world. The driving force is in their social media connections and interactions. Being seen, and more importantly being seen by and with the right people. That is the bigger driver now.
 
Defintiely not what I was advocating for, as 12-16 range in my nightmare. Maybe we just disagree on how good(or bad) the current team would be. I think they would still be really bad. And on the fringe of play-in contention at best when the deadline comes. With a horrible team around him, I'm honestly not sure how much Mitchell kills your lottery odds. I expect to have a realistic shot of landing in the top three of the draft next year no matter what.


Fair. I should say that an offer on the level on Herro, Robinson, and some picks will always be out there. And if Miami made a different trade I'm not sad about missing out on that package at all.
I figured you weren't advocating for it, that is just where I see it headed if we run out the team as we currently stand. Remember, fringe play-in is still a pick in the late lottery. To truly tank we would need to be in the bottom 5 or 6 in the league. The team we have now would likely be somewhere in the 12-16 range in the league as it stands. Not terrible enough to get anything of value, not good enough to be worth watching. That is a nightmare.
 
I figured you weren't advocating for it, that is just where I see it headed if we run out the team as we currently stand. Remember, fringe play-in is still a pick in the late lottery. To truly tank we would need to be in the bottom 5 or 6 in the league. The team we have now would likely be somewhere in the 12-16 range in the league as it stands. Not terrible enough to get anything of value, not good enough to be worth watching. That is a nightmare.
Maybe I overestimate the rest of the league. Or underrate Mitchell.

If we can move off Bev, Bogey, Beasley, etc. A team led by Conley, Mitchell, and Vanderbilt I think is firmly in the group of the worst teams in the West.
 
And now we see the strengths and weaknesses of the way Danny does things. Sometimes you do need to seize the moment, and sometimes you need to drag **** out and hope you break a franchise. With Gobert it worked, with Mitchell, it means we might come up with a fraction of the haul. The time to trade him was prior to the draft to the Kings and it would be very difficult to convince me the Jazz couldn't have made a good deal with them.
 
Maybe I overestimate the rest of the league. Or underrate Mitchell.

If we can move off Bev, Bogey, Beasley, etc. A team led by Conley, Mitchell, and Vanderbilt I think is firmly in the group of the worst teams in the West.
At which point Donovan's value falls. Maybe precipitously.
 
Maybe I overestimate the rest of the league. Or underrate Mitchell.

If we can move off Bev, Bogey, Beasley, etc. A team led by Conley, Mitchell, and Vanderbilt I think is firmly in the group of the worst teams in the West.
Could be. I think the problem is that Mitchell is just good enough, and Beverley et al add just enough to keep us kind of relevant. We won't be a cake walk by any stretch, but we won't be a threat either. We will be one of those teams that lose 6 in a row just to hand it to the Warriors on their home court by 25 then turn around and lose to the kings by 20 at home. Very frustrating to watch, and not bad enough to get us good things for our pain in the end. That is my fear.
 
Difference Hayward was expiring while Don has four years left on his deal AND this is Danny "bleeping" Ainge. I can see the Knicks waiting the market out if it's genuinely quiet. However, the hold up is Brooklyn dealing Kyrie and KD. Once that's done, the market will be unleashed, else teams will get tired of waiting.

Don has three left on his deal.
 
Defintiely not what I was advocating for, as 12-16 range in my nightmare. Maybe we just disagree on how good(or bad) the current team would be. I think they would still be really bad. And on the fringe of play-in contention at best when the deadline comes. With a horrible team around him, I'm honestly not sure how much Mitchell kills your lottery odds. I expect to have a realistic shot of landing in the top three of the draft next year no matter what.


Fair. I should say that an offer on the level on Herro, Robinson, and some picks will always be out there. And if Miami made a different trade I'm not sad about missing out on that package at all.
And that is fair too. I'm just saying that the Heat offer is good enough for me that if someone won't beat it I'd probably take it. To be clear... the offer would be:

- Herro - Who we should route to a third team hopefully for additional draft capital. If not he's a young developing player who has shown a lot of promise. If he doesn't extend at a good number you let him hit restricted FA. I don't love his game but we act like he's trash. Go comp his age 22 season to Don's age 22 season and it ain't that far off. He's a guy that works hard and improves every year... he will get better. I am not sure he's like a number 2 guy on a championship team... but he's a solid building block and he may have more to his game with a little freedom.
- Jovic - Who knows promising prospect.
- 3 firsts in 23/27/29 - They would need to make the 25 pick they owe to OKC unprotected In 5 years are Pat and Erik still there?
- Pick swaps in 24/26/28 - I'd put unique language in there that we can swap those with our pick or any other first round pick we own by the swap date. I see no reason this can't be done... all you need to do is satisfy the Stepien rule.
- Duncan Robinson - Whatevs
- Whatever minimum guys the Lakers, Mavs, Bucks or other capped out tax teams want in a three team deal - Strus/Vincent/Yurtseven those guys have great value to teams that need rotation pieces but are capped out. None will get a first on their own... but add them to Bev or Vanderbilt and certainly I could see a team giving up a first.

Murray just went for 2 unprotected picks, 1 swap, expiring salary, and one crappy protected pick that Atlanta owns that may not convey. He just came off an AS campaign and has a lower annual contract... plus he fits better in most scenarios because while he isn't as dynamic as Donovan... he is bigger and a really good defender. Donovan's value is more than Murray's but not like 2x as much.

The Rudy trade made the market go sideways... we maybe get that type of deal by waiting a year I guess... no guarantee that because one team overpays that the next will too. Remember... Trader Danny turned into Almost Ainge for a period of years... patience is great sometimes but it may not yield the result you want.
 
Conley-Beverley
Don-Clarkson
Bogey-Beasley
Vanderbilt-Gay
Poeltl

There is way too much talent on this roster not to win a lot of games. Getting Poeltl would be dumb as ****. Unless we have no interest in tanking.

We need to stand pat at center, trade Gay (**** him), trade Conley, trade Bogey, trade Clarkson…all of em. Tank the **** out of it. Silver doesn’t like it, **** him.
 
Donovan’s trade value isn’t going to get worse in my opinion if anything he probably could put up 30 PPG next season depending on what the roster looks like. The Heat deal is fine if that’s the best we can do. You never really know what can happen though as the Gobert deal showed us that. We were talking about some average packages compared to the one we actually got.
That is kind of my thinking as well. I think there is a very good chance that Mitchell has a career year and puts up something like 28pts, 7asts and 5rbs a game. That is one of the reasons that I really want to pair him with Ayton. I think Ayton could put up 24 and 12 with us. They would be a pretty awesome duo and then next offseason make it a priority to put complimentary pieces around them. If you have those 2 it isn't exactly a priority to win this season. Next season is what we would be building for.
 
Conley-Beverley
Don-Clarkson
Bogey-Beasley
Vanderbilt-Gay
Poeltl

There is way too much talent on this roster not to win a lot of games. Getting Poeltl would be dumb as ****. Unless we have no interest in tanking.

We need to stand pat at center, trade Gay (**** him), trade Conley, trade Bogey, trade Clarkson…all of em. Tank the **** out of it. Silver doesn’t like it, **** him.

I really don't think that team wins many games. Probably 11th or 12th in the west.
 
Also, as part of the tank, all starters should get a DNP once every two weeks.
Maybe every game DM takes 75% of all shots and the rest go to Vanderbilt, Beverly, Bolmaro and Kessler. We can also continue to play D where we funnel everyone into the paint and have Beverly stop it all. This way DM can set some records and we can lose heroically. #1 pick here we come.
 
Difference Hayward was expiring while Don has four years left on his deal AND this is Danny "bleeping" Ainge. I can see the Knicks waiting the market out if it's genuinely quiet. However, the hold up is Brooklyn dealing Kyrie and KD. Once that's done, the market will be unleashed, else teams will get tired of waiting.
and I do understand the difference here. We got nothing for Gordon... we will get something for Don... just feels like the major market we are all assuming will pony up some huge offer later would have a better knowledge of Donovan's true intentions than we do. He may want to see how RJ develops or what happens this next year before making them the preferred destination. It just seems like maybe he is holding off not to give us a chance to make it work... but for other reasons.
 
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