Donovan Mitchell unlikely to ask for trade per ESPN’s Brian Windhorst

[NUMBERICA]

In addition to injury... I have some concern because the guy does so much damage as pick and roll ball handler... and currently he has no good pick and roll partner... and he just lost one of the best in the league. There is some exposure there... his spot up shooting could improve... but if we sell off the other good parts who will set him up for those?

This honestly makes me want to bite on whatever is determined to be the best package before the season starts. If the Jazz suck and Don gets exposed, his value takes a real dive.

 

[Pinhead]

If you're willing to trade Don, I have no idea why you're not willing to trade the other vets. If you're worried about winning too many games, that is also very easily solved. And as I've said many times before, there's no real benefit to tanking now versus later. I don't care if we start sucking now or later. You don't gain more from tanking faster. If you get a top 5 pick now instead of a 12, somewhere down the line you're going to have a 12 instead of a 5 because you started earlier.

I do think we ultimately trade Don this summer, however, and just like the Rudy trade I think people will be surprised with what we get.....if this MIA deal is what we're expecting to get that is. I just know I'd be upset if we settled and traded for 80% of Don. I think when other buyers feel threatened by fomo and losing out on Don, they will offer up more. NYK and BKN (after KD/Kyrie) have the same/more incentive to trade for Don and will have the means to outbid MIA and I think they will. This MIA offer just isn't a very strong offer. 80% is fairly appropriate IMO, and I think you have to be confident enough to be able to get 80% later on if you pass up on this offer.

Except that draft classes aren’t always equal, and 2023 is supposed to be one of the better drafts. So delaying to even the trade deadline may cost us several spots.

 

[Elizah Huge]

If you're willing to trade Don, I have no idea why you're not willing to trade the other vets. If you're worried about winning too many games, that is also very easily solved. And as I've said many times before, there's no real benefit to tanking now versus later. I don't care if we start sucking now or later. You don't gain more from tanking faster. If you get a top 5 pick now instead of a 12, somewhere down the line you're going to have a 12 instead of a 5 because you started earlier.

I do think we ultimately trade Don this summer, however, and just like the Rudy trade I think people will be surprised with what we get.....if this MIA deal is what we're expecting to get that is. I just know I'd be upset if we settled and traded for 80% of Don. I think when other buyers feel threatened by fomo and losing out on Don, they will offer up more. NYK and BKN (after KD/Kyrie) have the same/more incentive to trade for Don and will have the means to outbid MIA and I think they will. This MIA offer just isn't a very strong offer. 80% is fairly appropriate IMO, and I think you have to be confident enough to be able to get 80% later on if you pass up on this offer.

There is a huge benefit to tanking now and starting now. The 2023 draft has the best draft prospect since LeBron and the best PG prospect since Rose.

 

[LoPo]

Except that draft classes aren’t always equal, and 2023 is supposed to be one of the better drafts. So delaying to even the trade deadline may cost us several spots.

If we absolutely love somebody high in the draft, we have the ability to go get them. We have Donovan, 3 2023 1st round picks and future draft capital and cap space next summer.

 

[Pinhead]

If we absolutely love somebody high in the draft, we have the ability to go get them. We have Donovan, 3 2023 1st round picks and future draft capital and cap space next summer.

The rumor was that we had our eye on someone in the late teens in this last draft, and we couldn’t make it happen.

What’s the goal in keeping Don around another year? What is the scenario you are hoping plays out?

 

[Elizah Huge]

We’ve had such a good discussion last few hours… YoungJefe and UtahJazz32 were both banned from posting for 1-2 weeks lol. It all makes sense now how refreshing.

 

[KqWIN]

This isn't really how it works at all. If you keep Don you won't sell of all the other parts. If you do that and keep Don it would put him in a horrible spot. Like we are just gonna pretend he isn't on the roster and go full OKC with Don? And then his value magically increases when we put him in a horrible spot?

You do gain a benefit from tanking faster. It isn't this yin and yang thing where we will get a balance of the same types of picks. Look at San Antonio... they hung out in the middle and now get to do a tear down. They have some decent guys but will be on the same timeline as us if we started the tank. You only have to tank until you get your elite talent... you aren't guaranteed to have a treadmill year where you draft 12th at the end of the tank.

Then there is also the impatience aspect of this... enjoying a treadmill season then going into the tank elongates the process and fans/owners start to get impatient the longer it goes. Its gonna hurt... no need to make it longer than it needs to be.

I'm not willing to settle for a deal just because it might make the guy you want to trade anyways mad or uncomfortable. I think you make decisions independent of how it makes Don feel. I will almost always base my personal opinion under the assumption that we continue to make good moves, but in this particular case I actually do believe Danny will do right by the franchise. I was hugely skeptical of Ainge before, but his actions have changed that. He's been doing the right things and negotiating both hard and successfully. I also don't think running with the OKC version of the Jazz is much different than running with the current roster. You're not fooling anyone by rolling out there with what we have. And not to open a can of worms, but I still don't hate that option of youngish around Don. That still requires moving off of all the old players, but I don't hate Don and a bunch of 25ish year olds who aren't terrible.

I still don't see a benefit in tanking sooner. If we start tanking now versus next summer, it's the same. SAS didn't miss out on anything because they tanked this summer instead of last summer. It just started a year later. However long you expect a rebuild to take, it's the same no matter when you start. The tank will last however it long it takes. When it starts, doesn't increase the quality of that tank. Maybe if you're dead set on drafting in this particular draft, but we've already gone over that. It's not a huge factor to me, and again not a reason for me to take a bad deal. I think it's somewhat fair to have different thoughts on a particular draft and how much that means, but me personally I do my best to not fall in love with specific prospects because that is something that has led me to poor opinions in the past.

The impatience is not something I care about. And I do understand the human element, but for me personally, I don't care. I'm not going to take what I believe to be a bad deal because I'm impatient. I think in reality, most people including decision makers do feel the pressure....which is why I think Don will be traded. I just think that MIA deal is indeed not good value for Mitchell. One of the reasons the Heat package is what it is is because they are limited in their options. It's all they can offer, not necessarily all they "would" offer for Mitchell if they weren't limited. In this case, they're limited in their draft assets and their methods of matching the salary. For example, if they had a $20M expiring they would totally include that instead of Duncan and still do the deal....but they don't. And that's a big factor because I think it would take two firsts to get off of Duncan's salary. When push comes to shove, someone else will beat that offer because it's not a hard package to beat. I have a hard time believing, for example, that NYK would not match that offer with the same picks and their version of the salary match. If you called Leon Rose and told him you're going to take the MIA offer, I think Rose would beat it. They have means, and once the threat of losing Don to the Heat arises I think the offers will rise.

If the Jazz take the Heat offer, I take as a signal that they're really high on Herro....which some people are, and he may be the most "premium" asset being put on the table, but I'm not so enthusiastic about that. There's really only one way for the Heat to get this done, and it's by offering everything. NYK has many more ways to smooth out a trade and can't imagine that MIA wants him so much more than NYK that NYK won't match. So if it's incredibly important that we tank now, whether that's because we don't want to deal with this limbo stage or because we want to put our name in the Wembanyama hat, I think we find a better offer.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If we absolutely love somebody high in the draft, we have the ability to go get them. We have Donovan, 3 2023 1st round picks and future draft capital and cap space next summer.

Good luck… it doesn’t matter what you have… those picks ain’t for sale.

 

[LoPo]

The rumor was that we had our eye on someone in the late teens in this last draft, and we couldn’t make it happen.

What’s the goal in keeping Don around another year? What is the scenario you are hoping plays out?

All depends on the coach. If he's good....

We play a 10 man position flexible roster instead of relying on 7 guys in a very rigid system (Rudy, Don, Bojan, Royce, Conley, HW and Clarkson). The key will be relying on better perimeter defending. Beverley, Vanderbilt and Beasley change that overnight. Coaching will address it too.

Offensively, we still need to build the roster. We have a bunch of firepower, but it's too small and focused on the PG and SG spots. We have to add to the size void.

This year, we build hope. We build promise. We create an identity. Next summer, we have 3 1st round picks and tons of cap space. We add players who want to join the project whether through the draft, trade or signing.

 

[KqWIN]

I think everything I’ve said could have really been summed up by….we need to negotiate with a little more “**** you” and I think Danny is. We’re going to get more than what the Heat can offer. When the time comes for a Don trade….and I do think it will be this summer…we’re going to look back at what we got and be happy we didn’t take the Heat deal.

 

[LoPo]

Good luck… it doesn’t matter what you have… those picks ain’t for sale.

I think you misread what I typed, We have three picks in the draft. If we like somebody higher in the draft, we trade up for that player. If 2023 is the strongest draft..... we have the assets in that draft to move around and get the player we want.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I think you misread what I typed, We have three picks in the draft. If we like somebody higher in the draft, we trade up for that player. If 2023 is the strongest draft..... we have the assets in that draft to move around and get the player we want.

You’re not understanding… it doesn’t matter what pick we have if it’s not a top-5 pick we aren’t getting one.

 

[LoPo]

You’re not understanding… it doesn’t matter what pick we have if it’s not a top-5 pick we aren’t getting one.

You don't know that. If the draft is so incredibly deep and good, spots in the late teens/early 20's along with cap space and maybe even Donovan Mitchell can get us in there.

You guys are making it out like our entire future relies on us tanking all season to hopefully get a top 4 pick.

 

[fishonjazz]

You don't know that. If the draft is so incredibly deep and good, spots in the late teens/early 20's along with cap space and maybe even Donovan Mitchell can get us in there.

You guys are making it out like our entire future relies on us tanking all season to hopefully get a top 4 pick.

I think that they believe that our BEST POSSIBLE future relies on us tanking next season to get a top 4 pick. I think that would be an accurate statement to describe the posters you are speaking of. It think that they understand that other good futures are also possible if we go a different direction but the BEST future is to land a top pick in next years draft.

I myself dont follow college bball or drafts and have no idea.

 

[LoPo]

I think that they believe that our BEST POSSIBLE future relies on us tanking next season to get a top 4 pick. I think that would be an accurate statement to describe the posters you are speaking of. It think that they understand that other good futures are also possible if we go a different direction but the BEST future is to land a top pick in next years draft.

I myself dont follow college bball or drafts and have no idea.

With the new lottery rules, I think it's quite foolish to trade a 25 year old 3 time all star and a bunch of quality NBA players just to lose on purpose to take a massive gamble that we end up in the top 3 or 4.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I think that they believe that our BEST POSSIBLE future relies on us tanking next season to get a top 4 pick. I think that would be an accurate statement to describe the posters you are speaking of. It think that they understand that other good futures are also possible if we go a different direction but the BEST future is to land a top pick in next years draft.

I myself dont follow college bball or drafts and have no idea.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lG1ZGy3U33I


Victor Wembanyama is considered the best prospect to come out since LeBron. In the video above he was playing against Chet Holmgren and Jaden Ivey both who were the #2 and #5 picks this year. He’s also two full years and four months younger than Holmgren is.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sF0oDlhPn2o

 

[MT Steve]

We’ve had such a good discussion last few hours… YoungJefe and UtahJazz32 were both banned from posting for 1-2 weeks lol. It all makes sense now how refreshing.

Thank God

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think you misread what I typed, We have three picks in the draft. If we like somebody higher in the draft, we trade up for that player. If 2023 is the strongest draft..... we have the assets in that draft to move around and get the player we want.

I heard you… the guys we want will go top 4… often times those picks aren’t for sale… put 5 picks in… no deal. Drafts are defined by who is at top. We don’t know if the draft is deep yet… even so 3 late firsts won’t get you from 12 to 3.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think everything I’ve said could have really been summed up by….we need to negotiate with a little more “**** you” and I think Danny is. We’re going to get more than what the Heat can offer. When the time comes for a Don trade….and I do think it will be this summer…we’re going to look back at what we got and be happy we didn’t take the Heat deal.

I mean that’s cute and macho but Presti is not a **** you negotiator at all… and he’s done just fine. I think there are ways to get what you want by working with players and GMs… we can dig in and not settle and drive a hard bargain and come out a big loser too.

I don’t think settling for the best deal is less macho or means you lost the trade or some BS. If you canvas the market and survey what is there and project what can come the best answer may very well be settling for 80% of what you’d hope to get.

 

[Pinhead]

With the new lottery rules, I think it's quite foolish to trade a 25 year old 3 time all star and a bunch of quality NBA players just to lose on purpose to take a massive gamble that we end up in the top 3 or 4.

And I think it’s quite foolish to hold onto that 25 year old 3 time all star when it’s clear the rebuilding process will take multiple years, and there has already been significant and persistent noise about him leaving the market.

Setting the noise aside, I still think you trade him now because his value won’t be any higher without a deep playoff / championship run. I also think there is a real possibility of his value declining without Rudy, in a new system, potential for injury, and that he didn’t play very well in the playoffs or the last month of the season… he very well could be on the decline already.

It’s time to cash out.