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Draft night 2017 might be the single biggest turning point in Utah Jazz history.

If I was Hayward and I wanted to leave and go to boston I would be talking about a Sign and Trade option. That way you get the money and the place to play. Jazz could take back a couple of players that will lose playing time when Gordon and Fultz arrive. Namely Crowder and or Bradley. It would be a win win for both teams.

Boston then turns draft picks into Butler
 
mellow said:
Oh, you are right. I should have been more clear. I don't think his job is in jeopardy or that the Millers/Starks would fire him. I believe he was planting the idea that sometimes FAs leave despite what the GM does. What struck me was the departure from his usual positive, the future is bright speech.

It is good PR practice to soften the blow of bad news by helping the people reach the conclusion before you tell them. Lindsey's dialogue, Locke's suggestions, league chatter, Hayward's peace-out, Robyn's clover signs....are all these just coincidence, or subtle suggestions to soften the blow? I don't know, but my gut tells me he is gone.
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Here eat a Snickers. Your gloominess is bumming me out. We need positive vibes. Let's all say it together.... "Hayward WILL stay"
 
It's illogic (& particularly unfortunate for Utah this year) to hold the draft prior to FA. It will be interesting to see what DL's strategy/philosophy is on draft night as it will likely indicate their intention of retaining our core/confidence to do so. I agree that this off-season likely greatly influences the direction of the franchise. It's unfortunate that we aren't going to have the luxury of drafting with a firm grasp on the general construction of the roster.
 
mellow said:
No, it probably won't. But I am curious how the Jazz approach the draft. Do they use up their draft picks trying to free up salary (bye-bye Burks), or acquiring a single player? Or do they start the Rebuild III?
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If Hayward was signed we'd likely be open to making a big deal.

Here is what I think... he either thinks he needs a change to compete for a title or he'd like to be the all star that leads his team and they might not have the upside to get there but it isn't inconceivable. Nothing we do on draft night shifts that in the short term.

I don't think it's a fine deal but I think 95% of the data has been collected... nothing swings it unless it's huge and I don't see anything huge.

Draft the best talent that fits where we are headed regardless of hayward.
 
I'm getting sick of all these "sources" claiming that Hayward is gone. The people who are on record (Ingles and Hill) actually know Hayward, are close friends with him, and said at the locker room clean out that they believed that his heart is in Utah. I understand that things can change, but those two friends making public comments weigh more to me than any of these "sources"
 
What assets do we really have to allocate to better things? I think JF vastly overrates what the NBA market would pay for some of our guys.

The reality is that our biggest trade chip is Rudy Gobert who would command a ransom. In doing so, we'd basically be starting over.

If you really want to play the long game, you'd liquidate everything you have to make a play on the NBA landscape in five years when the GSW/CLE annual rematch disappears.
 
jazzman12 said:
If that's the case, I'm pretty bummed out with Gordon. Quin and his staff have spent an awful lot of time helping him as a player.
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True, they have helped him out a lot, but I don't think the Jazz offense fits Hayward's playing style very well. Hayward can create on his own, especially with mismatches (which the Utah offense does create) but his strength is getting open off the ball, and Boston's sets will fit Hayward perfectly. Unfortunately, I think he leaves, and he will excel in Boston under Steven's offense. I actually really appreciate the sets that Stevens runs, which as a Jazz fan, I should, as they run a lot of classic Jazz offense.
 
Avery said:
What assets do we really have to allocate to better things? I think JF vastly overrates what the NBA market would pay for some of our guys.

The reality is that our biggest trade chip is Rudy Gobert who would command a ransom. In doing so, we'd basically be starting over.

If you really want to play the long game, you'd liquidate everything you have to make a play on the NBA landscape in five years when the GSW/CLE annual rematch disappears.
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I agree our assets are fairly underwhelming but we have enough quantity that we could hypothetically condense it into quality. Finding a trade partner would likely be an issue, but a combination of Hood/Exum/24/future 1st(s) + fillers such Favors/Johnson/Lyles/30/OKC 1st should collectively have a reasonable amount of trade value.

If Hayward were to leave then there could be an argument regarding cashing in Gobert (for an absurd offer) & completely rebuilding again, but I think you're overestimating the GSW/LBJ era. LBJ will likely remain affective late into his career, but I expect him to begin to decline(ish) in 2/3 years (& also believe he needs more help, which CLE may not be able to provide). GSW is another story as they have a young, elite core that could hypothetically remain intact with multiple pay cuts.

If Gobert wasn't (IMO) a potentially generational impact player (& locked up for the next 4 yrs), I would be inclined to hit the reset button. But I think it's far from a certainty that GSW stays together long-term. Plus, not only is it impossible to predict the landscape of the league in 5+ yrs, there are currently several teams who are multiple tanks ahead of us & likely in better position(s) to peak in 5 years.

As long as Gobert is on the roster, I believe the future remains bright.
 
Trading for PG13 seems like our best option of keeping Hayward and contending. There are some other big name players that might get moved but he is the only one that wont gut our team to get. Although we should look at any all-star level or potential all-star level player being traded.

I believe the front office can still talk with Hayward. He has not opted out yet and is still our player. They should definitely get him involved and his opinions in any trade or moves draft day if that is possible. Not that we should let him dictate but we should get his feedback.
 
SCS said:
This current Western Conference GM who went on record as saying the belief around the league is that he is gone, probably wants him gone to Boston or Miami so his team doesn't have to deal with him 4 times a year. You always have to consider the source. The Jazz made no preemptive moves at the trade deadline to set themselves up in case Hayward leaves. There were no rumblings that they were considering trading Hayward either. I think they are confident in him staying. And I still think he stays. I do agree that it's time to turn some of these assets into a big name player though.
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I agree. I don't give a crap if some GM goes on record. Shows a lack of respect for the Utah franchise or at the least a greater respect for Boston than anything else.
 
mellow said:
Oh, you are right. I should have been more clear. I don't think his job is in jeopardy or that the Millers/Starks would fire him. I believe he was planting the idea that sometimes FAs leave despite what the GM does. What struck me was the departure from his usual positive, the future is bright speech.

It is good PR practice to soften the blow of bad news by helping the people reach the conclusion before you tell them. Lindsey's dialogue, Locke's suggestions, league chatter, Hayward's peace-out, Robyn's clover signs....are all these just coincidence, or subtle suggestions to soften the blow? I don't know, but my gut tells me he is gone.
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Let's calm down. It's just as valid an interpretation to say that Hayward didn't "peace out," he put up his hand in gratitude for the fans cheering. I don't buy the Lindsay's dialogue argument at all. He sounds the same as he always does. Locke is speaking from his own gut, not from some secret source information, and he's merely listed reasons Hayward would stay versus reasons he would leave. You're looking at the clouds and seeing the shape of a giant monster where others see a big heart shape.

David Stern said:
I'm getting sick of all these "sources" claiming that Hayward is gone. The people who are on record (Ingles and Hill) actually know Hayward, are close friends with him, and said at the locker room clean out that they believed that his heart is in Utah. I understand that things can change, but those two friends making public comments weigh more to me than any of these "sources"
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Thank you. Talking sense.
 
LifeOnaPlate said:
Let's calm down. It's just as valid an interpretation to say that Hayward didn't "peace out," he put up his hand in gratitude for the fans cheering. I don't buy the Lindsay's dialogue argument at all. He sounds the same as he always does. Locke is speaking from his own gut, not from some secret source information, and he's merely listed reasons Hayward would stay versus reasons he would leave. You're looking at the clouds and seeing the shape of a giant monster where others see a big heart shape.



Thank you. Talking sense.
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I love you.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Trading for PG13 seems like our best option of keeping Hayward and contending. There are some other big name players that might get moved but he is the only one that wont gut our team to get. Although we should look at any all-star level or potential all-star level player being traded.

I believe the front office can still talk with Hayward. He has not opted out yet and is still our player. They should definitely get him involved and his opinions in any trade or moves draft day if that is possible. Not that we should let him dictate but we should get his feedback.
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Do you really think we have the assets to acquire George without gutting our roster outside of Hayward/Gobert? I understand he's a rental & it's possible IND could be forced to settle for lesser assets due to PG's known desire to play in LAL. But BOS is also in pursuit of Hayward & has substantially more assets to offer.

BOS could easily top any package we could potentially offer. But even if some combination of Hood/Favors/Exum/Lyles/24/30/future 1st(s)/etc gets it done, is it worth essentially going asset bankrupt without a long-term commitment, for the purpose of retaining Hayward (which wouldn't necessarily be a given), maybe competing for 1 season, & attempting to convince PG to choose Utah over LA?

Even if Hayward stays due to the trade, PG walking would essentially force us to rely on FA/late 1st rd gems in order to attract that 3rd star (which is historically a poor bet). Are you really willing to bet our remaining assets that a single season here is going to convince PG to re-sign long-term? Or that a core of PG/Hayward/Gobert (+ whatever remains) will win a championship next year?

I'm not. I think the strategy needs to be to give ourselves as many opportunities at finding the next PG/etc as possible.
 
Tim Mcmahon did mention that Hayward has concerns playing with IT... He's been pretty clued in. Said it wasn't from anyone in the Hayward camp.
 
karl malone said:
Do you really think we have the assets to acquire George without gutting our roster outside of Hayward/Gobert? I understand he's a rental & it's possible IND could be forced to settle for lesser assets due to PG's known desire to play in LAL. But BOS is also in pursuit of Hayward & has substantially more assets to offer.

BOS could easily top any package we could potentially offer. But even if some combination of Hood/Favors/Exum/Lyles/24/30/future 1st(s)/etc gets it done, is it worth essentially going asset bankrupt without a long-term commitment, for the purpose of retaining Hayward (which wouldn't necessarily be a given), maybe competing for 1 season, & attempting to convince PG to choose Utah over LA?

Even if Hayward stays due to the trade, PG walking would essentially force us to rely on FA/late 1st rd gems in order to attract that 3rd star (which is historically a poor bet). Are you really willing to bet our remaining assets that a single season here is going to convince PG to re-sign long-term? Or that a core of PG/Hayward/Gobert (+ whatever remains) will win a championship next year?

I'm not. I think the strategy needs to be to give ourselves as many opportunities at finding the next PG/etc as possible.
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Yes I think we could get him without gutting the team. The main thing Boston has to outbid us with is the #1 pick and they are not trading that for George.

Yes I think it's worth the risk of him leaving to trade for him.
 
Shad said:
Where's Ron, Fishon, and downunder now? I bet they're sweating a little bit
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Literally just posted above you...

There is a chance he leaves but Utah is still the favorite, even vs the field.

Anything else you want to root for the Jazz to fail at? How about them playoffs?
 
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