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Interesting take. Many people believe the nanny state decimated the black nuclear family and that has hurt African American's. I'm assuming you don't believe that. Per capita crime being highest among African Americans, do you believe this is more a symptom of poverty and systemic racism still or is could it be the dissolution of traditional judeo-Christian values taught in the home by parents committed to one another and their children?

Slavery, institutionalised racism and entrenched poverty, added to that the emergence of criminal culture as social currency. Its nothing new for depressed communities to have high levels of drug use, it happens all over the world, what doesn't tend to happen around the world is the amount of murder associated with drug dealing in the US. Its incredibly sad that poor people instead of engaging in solidarity with other poor people to improve their lives chase the capitalist lie of material wealth and egotistical status through violent crime.

I ****ing hate that here in Australia we've been making TV shows about our gang wars (nothing like the US, were talking about maybe 30 murders in 25 years) but what ***** me is that it celebrates these bastards and their violence. We're having a significant issue here with African youth crime, stealing cars, being involved in violent robberies and home invasions, for the most part it is performative violence and a lot of it is streamed online to their friends. A huge part of it is the adoption by this cohort of American rap culture and these kids wanting to belong to a sub culture that makes them feel empowered. Now these kids are disadvantaged by local standards but poverty does not exist in this country like it does in the US, but they feel empowered by referring to their neighbourhoods as the "ghetto". These public housing enclaves sit side by side with some of the most expensive real estate in the world, its hardly a ghetto if you have travelled outside of Australia and seen real poverty. The tragedy of it is that these children are committing very adult crimes and the community is rightly intolerant of it but it also plays into the hands of far right politicians who happily exploit it. Again American politics in our country.
 
Slavery, institutionalised racism and entrenched poverty, added to that the emergence of criminal culture as social currency. Its nothing new for depressed communities to have high levels of drug use, it happens all over the world, what doesn't tend to happen around the world is the amount of murder associated with drug dealing in the US. Its incredibly sad that poor people instead of engaging in solidarity with other poor people to improve their lives chase the capitalist lie of material wealth and egotistical status through violent crime.

I ****ing hate that here in Australia we've been making TV shows about our gang wars (nothing like the US, were talking about maybe 30 murders in 25 years) but what ***** me is that it celebrates these bastards and their violence. We're having a significant issue here with African youth crime, stealing cars, being involved in violent robberies and home invasions, for the most part it is performative violence and a lot of it is streamed online to their friends. A huge part of it is the adoption by this cohort of American rap culture and these kids wanting to belong to a sub culture that makes them feel empowered. Now these kids are disadvantaged by local standards but poverty does not exist in this country like it does in the US, but they feel empowered by referring to their neighbourhoods as the "ghetto". These public housing enclaves sit side by side with some of the most expensive real estate in the world, its hardly a ghetto if you have travelled outside of Australia and seen real poverty. The tragedy of it is that these children are committing very adult crimes and the community is rightly intolerant of it but it also plays into the hands of far right politicians who happily exploit it. Again American politics in our country.
I mean, you guys made a national ****ing hero out of Ned Kelly. I read somewhere that he is the subject of more biographies than any other Australian.
 
I mean, you guys made a national ****ing hero out of Ned Kelly. I read somewhere that he is the subject of more biographies than any other Australian.

Sounds about right, I reckon second place is probably the race horse Phar Lap (tells you a lot about a country). I think a lot of it has to do with it being taught in schools to very young kids and therefore the image is sanitised, bushrangers and the gold rush are part of the syllabus for kids around the age of 7-8. These kids will likely never study this again unless they read colonial Australian history at University, so its all very PG. On top of that you have all the pop culture stuff, movies, art work and so on, there is a whole industry built around the Kelly gang. You know a bunch of cuddly guys who killed I think 6 people?
 
Slavery, institutionalised racism and entrenched poverty, added to that the emergence of criminal culture as social currency. Its nothing new for depressed communities to have high levels of drug use, it happens all over the world, what doesn't tend to happen around the world is the amount of murder associated with drug dealing in the US. Its incredibly sad that poor people instead of engaging in solidarity with other poor people to improve their lives chase the capitalist lie of material wealth and egotistical status through violent crime.

I ****ing hate that here in Australia we've been making TV shows about our gang wars (nothing like the US, were talking about maybe 30 murders in 25 years) but what ***** me is that it celebrates these bastards and their violence. We're having a significant issue here with African youth crime, stealing cars, being involved in violent robberies and home invasions, for the most part it is performative violence and a lot of it is streamed online to their friends. A huge part of it is the adoption by this cohort of American rap culture and these kids wanting to belong to a sub culture that makes them feel empowered. Now these kids are disadvantaged by local standards but poverty does not exist in this country like it does in the US, but they feel empowered by referring to their neighbourhoods as the "ghetto". These public housing enclaves sit side by side with some of the most expensive real estate in the world, its hardly a ghetto if you have travelled outside of Australia and seen real poverty. The tragedy of it is that these children are committing very adult crimes and the community is rightly intolerant of it but it also plays into the hands of far right politicians who happily exploit it. Again American politics in our country.
Yeah. Super sad. I would like to see an effective solution some time in my lifetime. My dream would be for all of American society to be a high trust society of honor and little crime. I visited Japan last year and it was inspiring to see how well they seem to be doing on that front at least relative to the USA
 
lol

“He’s not a troll. He’s arguing in good faith.”

I don’t think so.

“Busts out a Jordan Peterson quote.”

lol. Okay. lol. Enjoy the thread guys. lol

And if you think this is about disagreeing with someone, it’s not.
This is where I also came into conclusion he's not worth my time. I was actually going to try before the JP quote.
 
nobody that hates JP can ever tell me exactly why

I think he’s a greasy ****ing loser.

He’s a rage baiting, debate-pornstar who uses tears, young men’s insecurity and lack of education to manipulate them with alt-right, patriarchal garbage allowing them to blame their inability to attract women on everyone and everything but themselves.

It’s why you don’t get feminism or women. You listen to grifters, like JP. Stop being such a mark.


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I think he’s a greasy ****ing loser.

He’s a rage baiting, debate-pornstar who uses tears, young men’s insecurity and lack of education to manipulate them with alt-right, patriarchal garbage allowing them to blame their inability to attract women on everyone and everything but themselves.

It’s why you don’t get feminism or women. You listen to grifters, like JP. Stop being such a mark.


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Excellent post
 
I think he’s a greasy ****ing loser.

He’s a rage baiting, debate-pornstar who uses tears, young men’s insecurity and lack of education to manipulate them with alt-right, patriarchal garbage allowing them to blame their inability to attract women on everyone and everything but themselves.

It’s why you don’t get feminism or women. You listen to grifters, like JP. Stop being such a mark.


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The part where you say blame their inability to attract women on everyone and everything but themselves tells me you have not really listened to what he has to say. I'd say his message is rather antithetical to that. If anything, his message is "hey bucko! Nobody is coming to save you. You're responsible for where you are. Take some responsibility and tell the truth. Or at the very least, don't lie!"

Babypeterzz. I have nothing but good will for you mate. We're all just infallible humans trying to get through this thing. I come to the table in good faith. No need to keep telling me how dumb or socially inept i am. But if you must continue, that's okay too.
 
The part where you say blame their inability to attract women on everyone and everything but themselves tells me you have not really listened to what he has to say. I'd say his message is rather antithetical to that. If anything, his message is "hey bucko! Nobody is coming to save you. You're responsible for where you are. Take some responsibility and tell the truth. Or at the very least, don't lie!"

Babypeterzz. I have nothing but good will for you mate. We're all just infallible humans trying to get through this thing. I come to the table in good faith. No need to keep telling me how dumb or socially inept i am. But if you must continue, that's okay too.

Fair enough. Sorry I treated you like a troll. You have been posting respectfully.

You’re right, he does say that stuff and it’s a good message young men need to hear.

It’s his based takes on women and men, and his veiled, and not so veiled, misogyny I can’t stand and is not doing young men any favors. It’s teaching them that women are the problem and need to change in order for them to find a mate. Body count, traditional gender roles, and wild libertarian overtones ruin his whole message. It’s leaves young men so little room to operate in society, let alone with a partner and doesn’t address the underlying problems. Therapy can really help here, but it takes lots of time and money.

The manosphere is poison man.


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It’s teaching them that women are the problem and need to change in order for them to find a mate.
That is the opposite of what JBP says. His message is focused on men needing to improve. JBP is dismissive of the man-o-sphere / Fresh n Fit / Whatever podcast narrative you are trying to attribute to him as he believes that to be the opposite of taking responsibility for oneself. He is famous for telling men who are lost in their lives to take on the responsibility of making their bed in the morning. Once they own that bed-making responsibility, then add a bit more responsibility, and then a bit more.
 
That is the opposite of what JBP says. His message is focused on men needing to improve. JBP is dismissive of the man-o-sphere / Fresh n Fit / Whatever podcast narrative you are trying to attribute to him as he believes that to be the opposite of taking responsibility for oneself. He is famous for telling men who are lost in their lives to take on the responsibility of making their bed in the morning. Once they own that bed-making responsibility, then add a bit more responsibility, and then a bit more.

Go back and read my post. I already agreed with his good message. The problem is he “Fresh n Fits” too. I hate posting his garbage. But he engages in debate-porn with unqualified people to look smart, and it’s not satire. Kirk and others do it. It’s a clever trick that fools impressionable young men with less experience and education, and apparently middle aged men as well. He could never stand up to a real scholar tho.


View: https://youtu.be/aMcjxSThD54?si=U3sESaTKUejpox_i


Now I think people shouldn’t have to be well read or educated to understand the very nuanced ideas and realities around women, their experience, and their trauma. I like the podcast format for this stuff.

Do you guys listen to any podcast that discuss women and men issues hosted by women? Here are a few, depends on your vibe:

Unladylike, Call Your Girlfriend, Visible Women, The Waves Podcast, The Feminist Lens, Women Want Strong Men, I Weigh, and Financial Feminist

You’re not gonna like it, but it’s the experience of 50% of the population, our moms, wives, sisters, daughters, friends, neighbors, coworkers. If you haven’t listened to women and get a better understanding of their experience you’re missing half of the picture. The more you listen the more you’ll understand and realize how you can incorporate it into your world view, giving you more understanding of women’s issues and how you as a man can help them.

I hope you give it a try and come back and teach us what you’ve learned, and how you think it relates to what’s been posted above.


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Go back and read my post.
I did read your post. This is what you wrote:
... teaching them that women are the problem and need to change in order for them to find a mate.
The very first words in the video clip you posted blow your narrative out of the water.

"Jordan Peterson, you've said that men need to quote grow the hell up..."

How does that go into your brain and come out as 'JBP is teaching that women are the problem and women need to change in order for women to find a mate'?

As for all the women podcasts you promote, no thanks. I have no interest in helping women beyond how I help any person. Being women doesn't make them helpless infants that all need saving and I find the soft bigotry of low expectations to be cringe. Besides, I've been married for two decades and see the wisdom of the Mike Pence rule. There is one I'd kill and die for, but all the rest are kept at arm's length.
 
I did read your post. This is what you wrote:

The very first words in the video clip you posted blow your narrative out of the water.

"Jordan Peterson, you've said that men need to quote grow the hell up..."

How does that go into your brain and come out as 'JBP is teaching that women are the problem and women need to change in order for women to find a mate'?

No the other part.

As for all the women podcasts you promote, no thanks. I have no interest in helping women beyond how I help any person. Being women doesn't make them helpless infants that all need saving and I find the soft bigotry of low expectations to be cringe. Besides, I've been married for two decades and see the wisdom of the Mike Pence rule. There is one I'd kill and die for, but all the rest are kept at arm's length.

Ok, I listen to your stuff but you won’t listen to mine? I’m sure you know you’re being willfully ignorant to protect your marriage and worldview from scrutiny. I get that. I would be compelled to do the same. I’m also married and love my wife very much. Would die for her yada yada. Definitely the bare minimum stuff, just like you.

I hope this works as an example of why MAGA can’t seem to understand why people treat them the way they do. If someone spouts off opinions without half the picture sounds really dumb to most of us. You don’t do real research, you get info from social media only. Your “news sites” are blogs. Foxnews literally has a little timer next to their posts so people know it only take 2 minutes to read. Big *** font, etc. like for old people. Like if you’re actually 80 years old or something.



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I did read your post. This is what you wrote:

The very first words in the video clip you posted blow your narrative out of the water.

"Jordan Peterson, you've said that men need to quote grow the hell up..."

How does that go into your brain and come out as 'JBP is teaching that women are the problem and women need to change in order for women to find a mate'?

As for all the women podcasts you promote, no thanks. I have no interest in helping women beyond how I help any person. Being women doesn't make them helpless infants that all need saving and I find the soft bigotry of low expectations to be cringe. Besides, I've been married for two decades and see the wisdom of the Mike Pence rule. There is one I'd kill and die for, but all the rest are kept at arm's length.
lmao you are weird as ****
 
lmao you are weird as ****
Meh. It is different perspectives. For me, finding someone to slay the dragons of life with and raising a family is normal. For you, I can see normal is more along the lines of putting on as-less chaps and pleading around your ball gag for David Hogg to enforce gun control as you present yourself. To each his own. I'm libertarian and believe so long as you aren't hurting anyone then you do you.
 
Go back and read my post. I already agreed with his good message. The problem is he “Fresh n Fits” too. I hate posting his garbage. But he engages in debate-porn with unqualified people to look smart, and it’s not satire. Kirk and others do it. It’s a clever trick that fools impressionable young men with less experience and education, and apparently middle aged men as well. He could never stand up to a real scholar tho.


View: https://youtu.be/aMcjxSThD54?si=U3sESaTKUejpox_i


Now I think people shouldn’t have to be well read or educated to understand the very nuanced ideas and realities around women, their experience, and their trauma. I like the podcast format for this stuff.

Do you guys listen to any podcast that discuss women and men issues hosted by women? Here are a few, depends on your vibe:

Unladylike, Call Your Girlfriend, Visible Women, The Waves Podcast, The Feminist Lens, Women Want Strong Men, I Weigh, and Financial Feminist

You’re not gonna like it, but it’s the experience of 50% of the population, our moms, wives, sisters, daughters, friends, neighbors, coworkers. If you haven’t listened to women and get a better understanding of their experience you’re missing half of the picture. The more you listen the more you’ll understand and realize how you can incorporate it into your world view, giving you more understanding of women’s issues and how you as a man can help them.

I hope you give it a try and come back and teach us what you’ve learned, and how you think it relates to what’s been posted above.


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Yep. Go watch his debate with Matt Dillahunty. Very telling. After he refused any request for a rematch.
 
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