Following Potential 2025 Draftees

[KqWIN]

Well the FO has said they wanna build around Lauri. If that is true then most of your logic goes down the toilet and they only really have 2 options:

Either they draft with the fit as a high priority or they make some trade(s) to either move up/down or to acquire a guy.

But I guess your argument is that their intentions are fake and it may be so.

It's not that their intentions are fake, although I do think it becomes more likely as time goes on that building around Lauri is less likely. But that's not really the point.

My logic is this:

1) Having two players that can play together, but still leave holes on the roster is not the same thing as having two players that cannot play together. The former matters, just not nearly as much as the latter. Lauri is one of the easiest fitting players to begin with, so no matter how much you consider him it's not really a huge deal.

2) You do not have to put all the puzzle pieces together immediately, the Jazz roster isn't going to be set after this one draft. For example, the Jazz need a ball handler....but that doesn't need we need to draft the best lead ball handler. If you think Flagg and Harper are on the same tier without much separation, that is when I think you can start to think about fit. But if you think Flagg is better than Harper, I wouldn't draft Harper (or anyone else who you don't believe is as good as Flagg) because that player is a better fit. Flagg would still leave you with a need for on ball creation, but you don't have to try to resolve that through the draft.

I don't think they're in this dilemma that you presented where they must draft for fit or trade. I think they can simply take the guy they believe is the best player available wherever they pick.

 

[KqWIN]

Is Kasparas vs Egor a real conversation now? El Classico.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Well the FO has said they wanna build around Lauri

LOL

 

[HadAnEffectHere]

I think we're getting to the point where it becomes more and more clear the Jazz won't have any chance of contention until Lauri is 32+ years old and may not have the ability to defend anymore.

Out of all the star prospects in the two drafts, only really Boozer is ready to go now. Like, if the Jazz get a top 2 pick (which is only 27.4%) and get Flagg or Harper, these guys are probably 3-5 years away from being able to be like a #1 guy on a contending team.

With Hendricks' development being delayed by the injury and Cody being two years away from being two years away, it's just going to be many years until they can try to contend and it's not clear what Lauri will be like by the time that arrives.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Future Jazz: Dylan Harper / Drake Powell / AJ Dybantsa / Lauri Markkanen / Kyle Filipowski with Keyonte George / Cody Williams / Isaiah Collier off the bench

 

[HermanG]

It's not that their intentions are fake, although I do think it becomes more likely as time goes on that building around Lauri is less likely. But that's not really the point.

My logic is this:

1) Having two players that can play together, but still leave holes on the roster is not the same thing as having two players that cannot play together. The former matters, just not nearly as much as the latter. Lauri is one of the easiest fitting players to begin with, so no matter how much you consider him it's not really a huge deal.

2) You do not have to put all the puzzle pieces together immediately, the Jazz roster isn't going to be set after this one draft. For example, the Jazz need a ball handler....but that doesn't need we need to draft the best lead ball handler. If you think Flagg and Harper are on the same tier without much separation, that is when I think you can start to think about fit. But if you think Flagg is better than Harper, I wouldn't draft Harper (or anyone else who you don't believe is as good as Flagg) because that player is a better fit. Flagg would still leave you with a need for on ball creation, but you don't have to try to resolve that through the draft.

I don't think they're in this dilemma that you presented where they must draft for fit or trade. I think they can simply take the guy they believe is the best player available wherever they pick.

If you pick Flagg then you are putting a lot of requirements on the 3rd guy. Would be dumb to just think you can just magically go and grab a winning player who is also good enough to be the primary handler and cater for both.

If you draft Harper over Flagg, then you at least give yourself a chance to complete the roster in the Lauri window.

Of course no GM would ever go overboard with the lesser talent thing, but fit still needs to be high on your priorities if you want to realistically become a contender with Lauri on the roster.

 

[HermanG]

I think we're getting to the point where it becomes more and more clear the Jazz won't have any chance of contention until Lauri is 32+ years old and may not have the ability to defend anymore.

Out of all the star prospects in the two drafts, only really Boozer is ready to go now. Like, if the Jazz get a top 2 pick (which is only 27.4%) and get Flagg or Harper, these guys are probably 3-5 years away from being able to be like a #1 guy on a contending team.

With Hendricks' development being delayed by the injury and Cody being two years away from being two years away, it's just going to be many years until they can try to contend and it's not clear what Lauri will be like by the time that arrives.

This I'm afraid is the truth. As I said in another thread development year was delayed by a year by Hendricks injury and Cody being as raw as he is.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I think we're getting to the point where it becomes more and more clear the Jazz won't have any chance of contention until Lauri is 32+ years old and may not have the ability to defend anymore.

Out of all the star prospects in the two drafts, only really Boozer is ready to go now. Like, if the Jazz get a top 2 pick (which is only 27.4%) and get Flagg or Harper, these guys are probably 3-5 years away from being able to be like a #1 guy on a contending team.

With Hendricks' development being delayed by the injury and Cody being two years away from being two years away, it's just going to be many years until they can try to contend and it's not clear what Lauri will be like by the time that arrives.

The Celtics drafted Brown and Tatum in back-to-back drafts. Then it took 6 years for them to make the Finals and 8 years to win a chip.

Giannis was back-to-back MVP. He made the Finals and won a chip in his 8th season.

SGA was drafted in 2018. If OKC makes the Finals this year, it will be his 7th season.

This is normal.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

GMs are like politicians. They always lying. The only times they tell the truth when its convenient to fit my personal narrative on how I see things. Just an FYI

And everything is truly fluid.

If these young dudes looked like studs, yeah, you're building around Lauri. That doesnt seem to be the case now.

 

[HadAnEffectHere]

The Celtics drafted Brown and Tatum in back-to-back drafts. Then it took 6 years for them to make the Finals and 8 years to win a chip.

Giannis was back-to-back MVP. He made the Finals and won a chip in his 8th season.

SGA was drafted in 2018. If OKC makes the Finals this year, it will be his 7th season.

This is normal.

I mean, yes, but it's becoming increasingly obvious that Lauri will never play a serious role on a contending Jazz team. The timeframe for development in the NBA is so long outside of a couple of guys that Lauri will probably be a much more limited player when the Jazz have any shot.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

If the Wolves pick ends up being in the late lottery/early non-lottery, I think Sanon would be a great pick as an elite shooter who is also a really good athlete.

 

[KqWIN]

If you pick Flagg then you are putting a lot of requirements on the 3rd guy. Would be dumb to just think you can just magically go and grab a winning player who is also good enough to be the primary handler and cater for both.

If you draft Harper over Flagg, then you at least give yourself a chance to complete the roster in the Lauri window.

Of course no GM would ever go overboard with the lesser talent thing, but fit still needs to be high on your priorities if you want to realistically become a contender with Lauri on the roster.

I don't agree with the idea that you have no chance to compete with Lauri if we don't draft a ball handler right now. In order to compete with Harper and Lauri, you are also going to have to "magically" go and grab significantly more talent. No matter who we draft there will need to be a serious talent upgrade elsewhere on the roster.

If we were closer to contending and had more established pieces, that would be one thing. But we're so far away and Lauri is one of the least rigid players to begin with. I don't think it's a must that you have to go for whatever you think is the most pressing need first. When you're lacking so much talent, the best player is also the best fit.

 

[HermanG]

I don't agree with the idea that you have no chance to compete with Lauri if we don't draft a ball handler right now. In order to compete with Harper and Lauri, you are also going to have to "magically" go and grab significantly more talent. No matter who we draft there will need to be a serious talent upgrade elsewhere on the roster.

If we were closer to contending and had more established pieces, that would be one thing. But we're so far away and Lauri is one of the least rigid players to begin with. I don't think it's a must that you have to go for whatever you think is the most pressing need first. When you're lacking so much talent, the best player is also the best fit.

Yeah but now you are arguing against building around/involving Lauri. Thats a whole different scenario. In that world you draft BPA without a doubt.

Grabbing talent is easier when you leave your options open on what kind of talent you can target. Grabbing specific type of talent is damn hard.

 

[KqWIN]

Yeah but now you are arguing against building around/involving Lauri. Thats a whole different scenario. In that world you draft BPA without a doubt.

Grabbing talent is easier when you leave your options open on what kind of talent you can target. Grabbing specific type of talent is damn hard.

No I am not. I don’t know how you came to that conclusion. I’m saying the best way to build around Lauri is the best player. There isn’t this harsh rule that we must draft a ball handler or give up on building around Lauri. I see no reason why you must be specific at the draft but cannot be more fit specific in the future. One draft move is not making us title contenders.

Let me put this as plainly as possible so there is no confusion.

If we want to build around Lauri, draft the best player available. That is the best way to build around Lauri. I hope that is clear enough.

 

[HermanG]

No I am not. I don’t know how you came to that conclusion. I’m saying the best way to build around Lauri is the best player. There isn’t this harsh rule that we must draft a ball handler or give up on building around Lauri. I see no reason why you must be specific at the draft but cannot be more fit specific in the future. One draft move is not making us title contenders.

Let me put this as plainly as possible so there is no confusion.

If we want to build around Lauri, draft the best player available. That is the best way to build around Lauri. I hope that is clear enough.

There is no harsh rule and no one argued that there was. Its just reading the situation.

We are in a hurry if we want to build around Lauri. When the clock is ticking you draft to maximize the upside of all your core pieces instead of just stacking maximum talent.

Its not that hard to see.

 

[HadAnEffectHere]

The "best fit" with Lauri is picking the guy most ready to go right now, but there isn't really a guy in this draft who is ready right now who is really a good candidate to go top 5 currently.

I do think the fit of most guys in terms of playstyle is pretty good. Flagg, Denim, Harper, Edgecombe, etc. Tre Johnson isn't an ideal fit, but the fit is fine. Ace Bailey is the only guy whose fit is genuinely a little awkward with Lauri. His total inability to dribble and pass pairs very poorly with the fact that Lauri and Kessler can't dribble or pass either. This would probably be the worst frontcourt in the NBA in terms of dribbling and passing.

Bailey MAYBE becomes a superstar and learns how to pass and dribble, but this would be a many many year process and Lauri would probably age out of relevancy by then.

Malauch and Queen are extremely bad fits with Kessler if you want to think about playstyle fit from that perspective.

 

[KqWIN]

There is no harsh rule and no one argued that there was. Its just reading the situation.

We are in a hurry if we want to build around Lauri. When the clock is ticking you draft to maximize the upside of all your core pieces instead of just stacking maximum talent.

Its not that hard to see.

In order to build around Lauri we would need to make several moves. We have several needs and how do you suppose we can contend if we don't draft that type of player? No matter who you draft, you're going to need something else. The draft is not the only way to acquire talent, and this won't be the only draft between now and potentially contending with Lauri. If you need a certain type of player, you do not have to get that player through draft nor is the draft necessarily the easiest way to do so. The highest quality player is the player who will help us contend the most.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

The "best fit" with Lauri is picking the guy most ready to go right now, but there isn't really a guy in this draft who is ready right now who is really a good candidate to go top 5 currently.

I do think the fit of most guys in terms of playstyle is pretty good. Flagg, Denim, Harper, Edgecombe, etc. Tre Johnson isn't an ideal fit, but the fit is fine. Ace Bailey is the only guy whose fit is genuinely a little awkward with Lauri.

Malauch and Queen are extremely bad fits with Kessler if you want to think about playstyle fit from that perspective.

The Jazz are believed to be willing to trade Walker Kessler for 2 FRPs. Hence, I wouldn't plan on building around him.

 

[fishonjazz]

I think we're getting to the point where it becomes more and more clear the Jazz won't have any chance of contention until Lauri is 32+ years old and may not have the ability to defend anymore.

Out of all the star prospects in the two drafts, only really Boozer is ready to go now. Like, if the Jazz get a top 2 pick (which is only 27.4%) and get Flagg or Harper, these guys are probably 3-5 years away from being able to be like a #1 guy on a contending team.

With Hendricks' development being delayed by the injury and Cody being two years away from being two years away, it's just going to be many years until they can try to contend and it's not clear what Lauri will be like by the time that arrives.

Ya I was always a tank with Lauri kind of guy but no more. I say we trade him when we can

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Derik Queen currently destroying Ohio State.