Hardy Says Keyonte Has a Chance to be a Star

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Keyonte having to be Mitchell or Clarkson is the dumbest take.

It's been one season of him playing a new position.

 

[Qman]

Keyonte having to be Mitchell or Clarkson is the dumbest take.

It's been one season of him playing a new position.

I can’t think of a player that suddenly improved their ball handling enough to be a lead ball handler. To me that is what keynote lacks for than anything.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I can’t think of a player that suddenly improved their ball handling enough to be a lead ball handler. To me that is what keynote lacks for than anything.

He's a fantastic ball handler ..

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Keyonte's only clear issue to me is the defense. Everything else he can improve dramatically and he has shown flashes of being a high level creator/scorer/shooter.

That and he is a complete diva, but that can be a positive thing as well.

I just hope he comes in this year and improves his defense. He's definitely a hard worker. The amount of weight he cut from the end of his college season to the start of the NBA season was ridiculous and that takes a lot of dedication. He's got a ton of room to put on size and strength.

 

[fishonjazz]

Keyonte's only clear issue to me is the defense. Everything else he can improve dramatically and he has shown flashes of being a high level creator/scorer/shooter.

That and he is a complete diva, but that can be a positive thing as well.

I just hope he comes in this year and improves his defense. He's definitely a hard worker. The amount of weight he cut from the end of his college season to the start of the NBA season was ridiculous and that takes a lot of dedication. He's got a ton of room to put on size and strength.

I think inefficiency is another clear issue in addition to his defense.

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[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think inefficiency is another clear issue in addition to his defense.

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Inefficiency as a rookie at a new position on a tanking team is a given. It's not a concern at all. If he repeats the same efficiency in his 2nd season, then I would be concerned.

 

[fishonjazz]

Inefficiency as a rookie at a new position on a tanking team is a given. It's not a concern at all. If he repeats the same efficiency in his 2nd season, then I would be concerned.

Inefficient in college as well though.
(37.6% from the field)
(39.1% from the field in the NBA)

Being over 40% from the field in college or NBA regardless of how young or tanking or whatever should be a given for a future star imo. Kobe as an 18 year old who everybody thought sucked as a rookie still shot over 40% from the field for example.

I bet it would be difficult to find a star that didn't shoot over 40% in college or in their rookie season. 40% is a pretty low bar. (Just plugged in some random dudes.... Tatum, SGA, 18 year old LeBron, luka. All over 40%.)

I see his inefficiency as a problem but I'm fine with agreeing to disagree and I do agree that he has the form on his shot, the size, the athleticism, the confidence ...... All the tools to be a great and efficient scorer. There have been other players in the past who have had everything needed to be an efficient scorer who never became one though.
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[Saint Cy of JFC]

Inefficient in college as well though.
(37.6% from the field)
(39.1% from the field in the NBA)

Being over 40% from the field in college or NBA regardless of how young or tanking or whatever should be a given for a future star imo. Kobe as an 18 year old who everybody thought sucked as a rookie still shot over 40% from the field for example.

I bet it would be difficult to find a star that didn't shoot over 40% in college or in their rookie season. 40% is a pretty low bar. (Just plugged in some random dudes.... Tatum, SGA, 18 year old LeBron, luka. All over 40%.)

I see his inefficiency as a problem but I'm fine with agreeing to disagree and I do agree that he has the form on his shot, the size, the athleticism, the confidence ...... All the tools to be a great and efficient scorer. There have been other players in the past who have had everything needed to be an efficient scorer who never became one though.
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Depends on how you want to define star, but I'm sure it's not that hard to find players who have made the all-star game who shot sub 40% as a Freshman and a rookie. Fred Van Vleet did it and he was a 4 year college player.

I dont think Hardy or anyone thinks Keyonte is on the level of a top 10 player.

But every situation is unique and different. Keyonte was in a weird position in college and was in a weird position in the NBA his rookie year.

 

[KqWIN]

Keyonte having to be Mitchell or Clarkson is the dumbest take.

It's been one season of him playing a new position.

It wasn’t my take by the way. Before the draft, a certain beat writer was hell bent that he can only be Mitchell and there isn’t examples of in between players.

 

[fishonjazz]

Depends on how you want to define star, but I'm sure it's not that hard to find players who have made the all-star game who shot sub 40% as a Freshman and a rookie. Fred Van Vleet did it and he was a 4 year college player.

I dont think Hardy or anyone thinks Keyonte is on the level of a top 10 player.

But every situation is unique and different. Keyonte was in a weird position in college and was in a weird position in the NBA his rookie year.

Good response.
For me his inefficiency is a problem until it isn't.

I have much higher hopes for keyonte than Fred Vanfleet fwiw.

I was thinking of monta Ellis for an inefficiency example. Was surprised to find that he never shot under 40% from the field in his 12 year career.

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[SoberasHotRod]

Inefficient in college as well though.
(37.6% from the field)
(39.1% from the field in the NBA)

Being over 40% from the field in college or NBA regardless of how young or tanking or whatever should be a given for a future star imo. Kobe as an 18 year old who everybody thought sucked as a rookie still shot over 40% from the field for example.

I bet it would be difficult to find a star that didn't shoot over 40% in college or in their rookie season. 40% is a pretty low bar. (Just plugged in some random dudes.... Tatum, SGA, 18 year old LeBron, luka. All over 40%.)

I see his inefficiency as a problem but I'm fine with agreeing to disagree and I do agree that he has the form on his shot, the size, the athleticism, the confidence ...... All the tools to be a great and efficient scorer. There have been other players in the past who have had everything needed to be an efficient scorer who never became one though.
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I'm not disagreeing with you, I haven't even looked at the numbers, but fg% really shouldn't be used when comparing efficiency, especially between players in the 3pt era and non 3pt era.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I can’t think of a player that suddenly improved their ball handling enough to be a lead ball handler. To me that is what keynote lacks for than anything.

Getting to wherever he wants to on the court with the ball is maybe Keyonte's only real NBA skill that he has consistently shown. It's the reason he has star potential because it's a quality that you typically only see in very high level scorers.

He's shown promise as a high level passer, especially at the first of last year. He's shown that he can get his shot off, but has long stretches where he can't hit a shot. Everything else is theoretical.

 

[jazznik]

Keyonte having to be Mitchell or Clarkson is the dumbest take.

It's been one season of him playing a new position.

Mitchell and Clarkson are both undersized SGs who play little defense (at least, the Utah Jazz Mitchell) and have some passing ability. Keyonte in his only season in the NBA was an undersized SG with some passing and very bad defense, so any other take would be even more dumb. All available evidence to date is pointing in this direction.

 

[jazznik]

Getting to wherever he wants to on the court with the ball is maybe Keyonte's only real NBA skill that he has consistently shown.

He's shown promise as a high level passer, especially at the first of last year. He's shown that he can get his shot off, but has long stretches where he can't hit a shot. Everything else is theoretical.

Except he did not really show it in the NBA. He showed it in the Summer League, and he showed it in a few meaningless games at the end of the season when the Jazz tanked and many of their opponents either also tanked or resting their players in the playoffs. When the games mattered I remember him too often passively standing and dribbling at the 3-point line, waiting for any action to materialize inside.

Keyonte still needs to prove that he can consistently get to wherever he wants to on the court against quality teams and good defenders. He, probably, will, but it is not a given.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Mitchell and Clarkson are both undersized SGs who play little defense (at least, the Utah Jazz Mitchell) and have some passing ability. Keyonte in his only season in the NBA was an undersized SG with some passing and very bad defense, so any other take would be even more dumb. All available evidence to date is pointing in this direction.

Lmao shut up.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm not disagreeing with you, I haven't even looked at the numbers, but fg% really shouldn't be used when comparing efficiency, especially between players in the 3pt era and non 3pt era.

Eh I guess I could have said that I think poor shooting is a weakness of his instead. (To refer to your point about 3pt era vs non I would add that his 3 point shooting is subpar as well)

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[SoberasHotRod]

Except he did not really show it in the NBA. He showed it in the Summer League, and he showed it in a few meaningless games at the end of the season when the Jazz tanked and many of their opponents either also tanked or resting their players in the playoffs. When the games mattered I remember him too often passively standing and dribbling at the 3-point line, waiting for any action to materialize inside.

Keyonte still needs to prove that he can consistently get to wherever he wants to on the court against quality teams and good defenders. He, probably, will, but it is not a given.

He took on different roles at different times during the season. I'm guessing that was mostly on coaching. I felt like he consistently showed the first step burst, the wiggle, change of speed, ability to keep his dribble alive in traffic etc, that is more specifically what I'm talking about when I say he can get wherever he wants to on the court. Obviously there were time against some of the elite on ball defenders that he struggled, but so does everyone.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Eh I guess I could have said that I think poor shooting is a weakness of his instead. (To refer to your point about 3pt era vs non I would add that his 3 point shooting is subpar as well)

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I'm almost positive you know the difference, but just to make sure, do you understand why comparing fg% is not a good indication of efficiency or shooting?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but I can explain if needed (I'm pretty sure I don't need to though).

 

[KqWIN]

Here are the craftednba comparisons for players 2013 and beyond:

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm almost positive you know the difference, but just to make sure, do you understand why comparing fg% is not a good indication of efficiency or shooting?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but I can explain if needed (I'm pretty sure I don't need to though).

I do understand. They are very heavily related though. Like if someone is a poor field goal shooter and a poor three point shooter then their efficiency typically won't be good either.

Usually to be an efficient scorer your shooting has to be at least decent. Rarely will an efficient scorer have horrendous field goal percentage (under 40% in this case)

See what I'm saying? His horrendous shooting is an issue. As is his efficiency. If his shooting improves a lot and is no longer an issue then it's likely that his efficiency will also improve a lot and will not be an issue either.

Efficiency and shooting (field goal% along with 3 point%) can often be interchangeable terms (though not always)

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