Hayward vs Hornacek

[udflyer]

If we compare Hayward (right now) to Hornacek over his career this how I see it:

Outside Shooting: Hornacek
Free Throw Shooting: Hornacek
Clutch Shooting: Hornacek
Ability to create own shot: Hornacek
Transition/Fastbreak scoring: Hayward
BB IQ: Hornacek
Dunking: Hayward
Shot Blocking: Hayward
Leadership: Hornacek
Rebounding: Hornacek
Passing/court Vision: Hornacek
Ball Handling: Hornacek
Athleticism: Hayward
Defense: Hayward

Hayward already surpasses Hornacek in several categories, but I could never see him becoming a better shooter/scorer than Horny.

Toughness: Hornacek
Passion: Hornacek


I love Hayward's game a lot, but I get frustrated that he is not tough. He lets JJ bump him at the free throw line, he lets West stick a finger in his ear.
He doesn't need to fight , but geesh , if someone sticks a finger in my ear I am at least getting in their face with some choice words.
I would also like to see him defend his teammates more when stuff happens. He just walks away.

Also, Hayward does not look passionate. I hear him speak of how he hates losing, but I do not see it.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I don't think it's fair to compare Hayward to Hornacek.

I really like Hayward but it's really not even close to compare a possible NBA hall of famer to someone entering their 4th year.

He does a lot of things well, and I hope he continues to improve... actually I truly believe he will get better and better for years to come.

 

[MVP]

I wonder how polls like that will do here - will Kanter or Favors ever will be better then Malone? Burke better then Stockton? Burks better then Wade? ...Nothing would surprise me anymore on this side.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I wonder how polls like that will do here - will Kanter or Favors ever will be better then Malone? Burke better then Stockton? Burks better then Wade? ...Nothing would surprise me anymore on this side.

If we won a championship with them, I'm sure we could make that argument.

 

[MVP]

If we won a championship with them, I'm sure we could make that argument.

I think chances are like 1 in a million

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I think chances are like 1 in a million

So you're telling me there's a chance!

 

[MVP]

So you're telling me there's a chance!

Yes, hope dies last. That's why we are fans, despite not winning championship for decades - every new season you hope for something magical to happen, even if deep inside you know there is no way.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I was thinking. If Dennis Lindsey ever "Pat Riley's" Corbin, we'll all know we have a good shot at a title that year.

 

[spycam1]

I don't think it's fair to compare Hayward to Hornacek.

I really like Hayward but it's really not even close to compare a possible NBA hall of famer to someone entering their 4th year.

He does a lot of things well, and I hope he continues to improve... actually I truly believe he will get better and better for years to come.

It's not a question of whether Hayward is better than Hornacek NOW, it's making a prediction on whether he'll be better than Hornacek several years down the road.

 

[spycam1]

I wonder how polls like that will do here - will Kanter or Favors ever will be better then Malone? Burke better then Stockton? Burks better then Wade? ...Nothing would surprise me anymore on this side.

I voted yes to this poll, but I'd vote no to any of those other polls. I have no doubt that the majority of Jazzfanz would vote the same way.

 

[akirac73]

Toughness: Hornacek
Passion: Hornacek


I love Hayward's game a lot, but I get frustrated that he is not tough. He lets JJ bump him at the free throw line, he lets West stick a finger in his ear.
He doesn't need to fight , but geesh , if someone sticks a finger in my ear I am at least getting in their face with some choice words.
I would also like to see him defend his teammates more when stuff happens. He just walks away.

Also, Hayward does not look passionate. I hear him speak of how he hates losing, but I do not see it.

I agree wholeheartedly. Hayward needs to be like John Stockton...an assassin in choir boy's clothing. Right now, Hayward is a choir boy in choir boy's clothing...

 

[spycam1]

I agree wholeheartedly. Hayward needs to be like John Stockton...an assassin in choir boy's clothing. Right now, Hayward is a choir boy in choir boy's clothing...

I want Hayward to add more toughness to his game too, but you make it sound like he's still the deer in headlights that he was as a rookie.

 

[Tom Pitt]

Toughness: Hornacek
Passion: Hornacek


I love Hayward's game a lot, but I get frustrated that he is not tough. He lets JJ bump him at the free throw line, he lets West stick a finger in his ear.
He doesn't need to fight , but geesh , if someone sticks a finger in my ear I am at least getting in their face with some choice words.
I would also like to see him defend his teammates more when stuff happens. He just walks away.

Also, Hayward does not look passionate. I hear him speak of how he hates losing, but I do not see it.

Truth is that Nastiness just isn't something Hayward has. Psychologically, that's not in his make up and I think I am okay with that. He's a good dude who wants to win, works hard, and makes his teammates better. He'll likely be a solid glue guy on our best teams in the next decade. Personally, I am okay leaving the nastiness role to someone else rather than Hayward trying to fake it or try and be something that he's not. I think What Hayward has can be just as important to the team: Poise, model of professionalism, contributor of comradery rather than a deterrent to it.

 

[Ellipse]

Tough call. He's probably not the defender Russell was, but he's still quite good. And he's much better offensively than Russell. I'd go with Hayward.

Horny wasn't in his prime when we went to the Finals....so idk.

The main reason to hesitate taking Hayward over either of them is that he's only played in ONE playoff series.

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts? Before we decide whether Hayward will be better than Horny on an NBA Finals team, we need to figure out who the future Stockton & Malone will be on this hypothetical team. Horny was the perfect compliment to Stockton and Malone; I'm not convinced Hayward has shown that he compliments anyone on this team. Without two better players on the team, Hayward will end up filling the role Horny filled at Philidelphia and Phoenix. What makes this upcoming season so exciting is discovering who will be the keepers for our run at a championship.

 

[Sexual Favors]

Truth is that Nastiness just isn't something Hayward has. Psychologically, that's not in his make up and I think I am okay with that. He's a good dude who wants to win, works hard, and makes his teammates better. He'll likely be a solid glue guy on our best teams in the next decade. Personally, I am okay leaving the nastiness role to someone else rather than Hayward trying to fake it or try and be something that he's not. I think What Hayward has can be just as important to the team: Poise, model of professionalism, contributor of comradery rather than a deterrent to it.

This

 

[Sexual Favors]

My thoughts? Before we decide whether Hayward will be better than Horny on an NBA Finals team, we need to figure out who the future Stockton & Malone will be on this hypothetical team. Horny was the perfect compliment to Stockton and Malone; I'm not convinced Hayward has shown that he compliments anyone on this team. Without two better players on the team, Hayward will end up filling the role Horny filled at Philidelphia and Phoenix. What makes this upcoming season so exciting is discovering who will be the keepers for our run at a championship.

Hayward might be our ONLY player that compliments the others on this team. It is a fact that when Hayward is on the court, everyone does better. He makes people better. Go check out the game logs and basketball-reference if you don't thunk so.

 

[franklin]

Hayward might be our ONLY player that compliments the others on this team. It is a fact that when Hayward is on the court, everyone does better. He makes people better. Go check out the game logs and basketball-reference if you don't thunk so.

WAR doesn't necessarily equal complimentary.

Also, arguing Hayward's last year stats to prove something with this year's roster is premature. Hayward might not initiate PnR with Favors or Kanter as well (not very well) as with Millsap. Ellipse has a valid point.

 

[spycam1]

My thoughts? Before we decide whether Hayward will be better than Horny on an NBA Finals team, we need to figure out who the future Stockton & Malone will be on this hypothetical team. Horny was the perfect compliment to Stockton and Malone; I'm not convinced Hayward has shown that he compliments anyone on this team. Without two better players on the team, Hayward will end up filling the role Horny filled at Philidelphia and Phoenix. What makes this upcoming season so exciting is discovering who will be the keepers for our run at a championship.

One of these guys + Kanter/Favors, obvi..

 

[ema]

I wonder how polls like that will do here - will Kanter or Favors ever will be better then Malone? Burke better then Stockton? Burks better then Wade? ...Nothing would surprise me anymore on this side.

Are you comparing Hornacek to Malone and Stockton?

Haywards potential is certainly comparable with Hornacek. But everyone knows there is no player in the Jazz currently with Malone/Stock potential.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I know discussion is fun, but I would say let's not get ahead of ourselves.