Hayward vs Hornacek

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

LMAO. That must be the most ridiculous post in this thread.

Coming from you this makes me feel good. You know Hayward was a pg in high school right?

 

[Jazz Spazz]

You guys are way to optimistic when it comes to Hayward. He will be decent player but not All-star like Horny. Sorry to rain some reality on your parade. You need to make poll with question will Hayward ever be as good as Harpring, Hornacek is out of his reach.

Your username is Andrei Kirilenko MVP.

I'm not disagreeing with your point, just sayin.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

no, wait this is even more ridiculous. Have you ever seen Hornacek play to say such stupidity?

Oh that's right. Troll!!!

 

[MVP]

Your username is Andrei Kirilenko MVP.

I'm not disagreeing with your point, just sayin.

It is well documented fact. Check Eurobasket 2007 and Euroleague 2012. And he was arguably MVP of the Jazz for numerous years. Or are you reading my username as AKMVPofNBA?

 

[MVP]

Coming from you this makes me feel good. You know Hayward was a pg in high school right?

Yeah I as well read he was defending centers in college. Does not make him a center you tool!

 

[LogGrad98]

While I agree on the Hornacek point as he was an absolute stud and savant when it came to getting shots off and those shots going in. Loved watching Hornacek play.

On the Russell thought though, I think Hayward is already better than Russell. Hayward's point average last year matched the career high avg for a year for Russell. Hayward has slightly better shooting percentages across the board, passes better, but needs to pick up his rebounding. He blocks more shots but gets less steals. As to the eye test, and based on my possibly faulty memory, Hayward plays better defense. He alters more shots, gets into people's heads more, and affects people more. I seem to remember Russell trying hard and being decent, but I never remembered him as a great defender or anything. So to recap, Hayward is already better than Russell, imho.

Russell had one thing, very solidly, that Hayward needs to develop. Consistency. You knew what you were getting from Russell every single night. He put it all out there. I think Hayward's inconsistency is roughly equal parts sporadic PT, and personal confidence. He needs to be confident in his playing the way Russell was and he can develop the consistency. That said, on a purely ability/talent standpoint Hayward is already leaps and bounds beyond Russell. Get the confidence/consistency part down and he could be a monster.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

It is well documented fact. Check Eurobasket 2007 and Euroleague 2012. And he was arguably MVP of the Jazz for numerous years. Or are you reading my username as AKMVPofNBA?

Uh... yea, NBA.

Didn't know there was an MVPofJazz award out there.

I stand corrected.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Russell had one thing, very solidly, that Hayward needs to develop. Consistency. You knew what you were getting from Russell every single night. He put it all out there. I think Hayward's inconsistency is roughly equal parts sporadic PT, and personal confidence. He needs to be confident in his playing the way Russell was and he can develop the consistency. That said, on a purely ability/talent standpoint Hayward is already leaps and bounds beyond Russell. Get the confidence/consistency part down and he could be a monster.

Yes, he does need to be more consistent, although I thought he made some progress last year as much as he could, but he still had the slow start to the year.
If he can break that habit of starting the season slowly and then looking good, that would be helpful.

 

[LogGrad98]

It is well documented fact. Check Eurobasket 2007 and Euroleague 2012. And he was arguably MVP of the Jazz for numerous years. Or are you reading my username as AKMVPofNBA?

Isn't that like being the MVP of your little league team?


Oh don't get me wrong, it's still a MVP....yeah.

 

[MVP]

Isn't that like being the MVP of your little league team?


Oh don't get me wrong, it's still a MVP....yeah.

Euroleague is second best league in the world. And Eurobasket is second ( while some experts consider it first) strongest international competition in the world. So no, it is not some kind of little league. In 2007 AK was named Eurobasket MVP despite such NBA stars playing in that tournament like Gasol brothers, Parker and Nowitzki.

 

[franklin]

So what Hayward does better? Block shots from behind? That I agree. Horny even on his gimpy knees at the end of the career was better rebounder, shooter and passer then Hayward. And you people seriously underrating Horny's defense. He was very smart, savy defender who knew how to stay between his man and basket and make them shoot from distance - even Pippen struggled against him despite significant athletic and height advantage. In his best years Horny was better then Hayward at everything but shot blocking and it was not even close. Obviously Hayward still has room to improve but to reach Horny's level? Stop kidding yourself.

Thread should have ended here. Hornacek's career DRtg is lower than Haywards.

Trying to compare their offensive skills is an embarrassment.

 

[franklin]

I may have a fully homerish view of Hornacek, but I think his numbers support this, and I see him as a truly special player. He was a floor leader as much as Stockton ever was, his shooting was uncanny, and his basketball IQ was off the charts. I went and watched some highlights and he was so crafty. He more than made up for his lack of mobility (knee problems) with the way he moved and he could hit the shot from damn near anywhere on the court with regularity. Not many players averaged 14/5/5 or anything close to that, but he did and was viewed as the 3rd best player on the team. On most teams he would have been the 2nd best, if not best, for most of his career. I agree he was fading as we were entering the finals years, but I still don't think Hayward would be able to equal Horny in those years.

Russell, on the other hand. I think Hayward right now would be Bryon's equal at least. I think Hayward in 2 years will eclipse Russell. Russell was one of those cut from the same cloth as Bowen, although not as elite. A defensive and 3-pt specialist with not a lot in-between. I think Hayward is a much more complete package. I think with Hayward on those finals teams in place of Russell and we have at least one championship, especially if it is the Hayward of 2 years from now, barring injury of course. Even the Hayward of last season I think would have caused the Bulls some fits, as he would have been very hard to guard, and imagine how much he could have done with some freedom to roam and play floor general alongside Stock, Horny and Malone. Haywards cuts to the basekt and ability to actually get to the rim would have been a great complement to the big 3. (Russell did that as well, after all the Jazz offense was built cuts and screens and pnr, but I think Hayward is more explosive and would create more size mismatches than Russell did, without giving anything else up really.) Defensive nightmare that group would have been, no doubt.

Ahhhh, every Jazz fan's dream to replace every black guy except Malone possible: Coach Sloan, Ostertag, Malone, Hayward, Hornacek, Stockton = Championshipz!!!!

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Euroleague is second best league in the world. And Eurobasket is second ( while some experts consider it first) strongest international competition in the world. So no, it is not some kind of little league. In 2007 AK was named Eurobasket MVP despite such NBA stars playing in that tournament like Gasol brothers, Parker and Nowitzki.

I like/liked AK a lot and thought he was a great player and good dude.

/AK talk

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Ahhhh, every Jazz fan's dream to replace every black guy except Malone possible: Coach Sloan, Ostertag, Malone, Hayward, Hornacek, Stockton = Championshipz!!!!

Are you playing the rollio of a racist trollio? Eaton over Tag. Dantley over Hayward. Bailey 6th man, and then see if you can make an argument for Hayward as 7th man.

Let me guess... you want Corbin over Sloan because you aren't a racist like the rest of the Jazz fanz?

 

[Getting Traded]

That said you have to remember that Hornacek played against players from the 90's. He barely got into the 2000's, and as we know, as the NBA progresses the players get exponentially better, so obviously Hornacek would have a hard time getting into double-digits against today's genetically-engineered NBA super-humans. He might get a rebound or 2 per game just because he plays hard, but please, there is no way he can compete. So essentially, by virtue of the far superior competition today, and how much more superior that competition will be tomorrow, Hayward is already better than Hornacek.

So, yeah.

You really think today's players are better than the NBA heyday of the 80s and 90s? I don't, maybe more athletic on average but not more skillful. Only area Hayward is better than Horny right now is defensively and that's because he's more athletic. Every other area, Horny dominates.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

You really think today's players are better than the NBA heyday of the 80s and 90s? I don't, maybe more athletic on average but not more skillful. Only area Hayward is better than Horny right now is defensively and that's because he's more athletic. Every other area, Horny dominates.

One of these days Log will loosen up and start to joke around. When that happens, beware.

 

[franklin]

Are you playing the rollio of a racist trollio? Eaton over Tag. Dantley over Hayward. Bailey 6th man, and then see if you can make an argument for Hayward as 7th man.

Let me guess... you want Corbin over Sloan because you aren't a racist like the rest of the Jazz fanz?

ಟಙ ಇಷ ಸರಖಸಮ ಡಅಂಏ

That should keep you busy for a while. Hint: it's phonetic.

 

[MVP]

Ahhhh, every Jazz fan's dream to replace every black guy except Malone possible: Coach Sloan, Ostertag, Malone, Hayward, Hornacek, Stockton = Championshipz!!!!

replace Ostertag with Okur and Hayward with AK and we win 2 championships easily.

 

[Jeffrey32]

Hayward, unlike Russell or Horny, can play 3 positions. Horny could play SG and some PG and Russell could play SG and SF, but Gordon and play SF, SG, and some PG (or at least Point Forward). I think he is a unique player with an extremely high ceiling.

 

[akirac73]

If we compare Hayward (right now) to Hornacek over his career this how I see it:

Outside Shooting: Hornacek
Free Throw Shooting: Hornacek
Clutch Shooting: Hornacek
Ability to create own shot: Hornacek
Transition/Fastbreak scoring: Hayward
BB IQ: Hornacek
Dunking: Hayward
Shot Blocking: Hayward
Leadership: Hornacek
Rebounding: Hornacek
Passing/court Vision: Hornacek
Ball Handling: Hornacek
Athleticism: Hayward
Defense: Hayward

Hayward already surpasses Hornacek in several categories, but I could never see him becoming a better shooter/scorer than Horny.