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How long are you going to tollerate losing?

There is a difference between Utah and Golden State; however, the moment we pull Hayward or Burks from a fourth quarter because they are on fire is the moment we become them. I believe that tanking is the job of the General Manager. It should never be a part of the coaches or players.

I hope the Jazz will never do this.
 
WhiskyPriest said:
There is a difference between Utah and Golden State; however, the moment we pull Hayward or Burks from a fourth quarter because they are on fire is the moment we become them. I believe that tanking is the job of the General Manager. It should never be a part of the coaches or players.

I hope the Jazz will never do this.
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Well said WhiskyPriest. Well said.
 
NCJazz said:
I say if losing the last three games of the season gives us a higher chance of getting #1 I hope Hayward, Favors, etc all come done with the flu. GS did what was best for their franchise and got a heck of a player.
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**** that. No way.
 
Zulu said:
Big difference....

GS was trying to be a playoff team...

Remember Mark Jackson promised they'd be a playoff team his first year..

Then Curry got injured and they saw that they were likely to just miss the playoffs and realized they wouldn't have a top pick in a decent draft....

So they traded there top scorer for an injured player.... Yup an injured player... Off the top of my head I can't think of a trade happening involving a high salary injured player...

Then the told Curry his ankle was healed yet and worst of all took out there perfectly healthy promising rookie Klay Thompson out of the 4th quarters of close games at the end if the season and let Dleague scrubs loose!!!!!

They had to loose 22 of the last 26 games to barley tie the raptors for a coin toss!!!

That is What you call a Tank job!!!

Are the Jazz tanking we don't know yet... All the jazz have done is give the opportunity for our young guys to play big minutes and prove themselves as lottery picks...

They didn't trade our vets, they didn't even play our young guys over the vets, they let them walk!!

Hell they offered Millsap an extension (Probably kicking himself after only getting a 2year deal)!!!

So I would definitely say the jazz are doing this much differently then GS!!!
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And on top of this, nobody knows how the Jazz will do next season. In all likelihood, they will struggle. But there is some chance that they will do better than expected. If it's the latter, I doubt Corbin or FO will adjust the line ups and in game strategy to insure more losses.

I agree that while the result may be the same, the intention for the Jazz is much different than with GS. If it's a tank, it will be the likely but not certain result of the FO strategy. Whereas with GS, the tank WAS the strategy. The former will be the effect, the latter was the cause.
 
WhiskyPriest said:
There is a difference between Utah and Golden State; however, the moment we pull Hayward or Burks from a fourth quarter because they are on fire is the moment we become them. I believe that tanking is the job of the General Manager. It should never be a part of the coaches or players.

I hope the Jazz will never do this.
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Yep I think this sums up this whole argument. And we won't know that until when the time comes (i.e., 20 games left in the season). I predict there won't be a "deliberate tank" but there will be some "DNPs due to niggling injury". I don't know what you call that - but that's what I've been saying they'll do.

Is that the same as what GST did? If I remembered correctly Bogut & Curry were shut down for the rest of the year. BUT they also pulled a perfectly healthy Klay from the game in the 4th quarter to make sure they lose those games. I don't think we'll ever do that. But I do think there could be some DNPs from Favors/Hayward/Burks/Burke down the stretch.

So may be "professional tank" is a better term....
 
Catchall said:
This is like the 2004/05 season when Boozer and AK were injured a lot and the Jazz ended up with the 4th worst record, then ultimately drafted DWill. This year is the year to do it. By this time next year, hopefully we'll have another future all star on our roster. We'll also have the cap room to extend both Hayward and Favors, and add free agents.

All the Jazz have to do is build up their bench in a year or so and that alone will add 10 wins. Within a few years, the Jazz should be one of the top 3 teams in the west.
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Perhaps not top-3, but we definitely can make a GS-like leap in one season. Youngs will have a full season under them, Jazz will add a pick in the 5-7 range (or even higher). Then Lindsey just replaces Biedrins and Jefferson with a couple of decent veterans and the Jazz will be right back in the playoff picture.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Yep I think this sums up this whole argument. And we won't know that until when the time comes (i.e., 20 games left in the season). I predict there won't be a "deliberate tank" but there will be some "DNPs due to niggling injury". I don't know what you call that - but that's what I've been saying they'll do.

Is that the same as what GST did? If I remembered correctly Bogut & Curry were shut down for the rest of the year. BUT they also pulled a perfectly healthy Klay from the game in the 4th quarter to make sure they lose those games. I don't think we'll ever do that. But I do think there could be some DNPs from Favors/Hayward/Burks/Burke down the stretch.

So may be "professional tank" is a better term....
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GS also had players intentionally lose games. Everyone was in on the fix. I refuse to believe throwing several in-bounds passes away, shooting up airballs, inserting all subs with 1/2 quarter to go and a marginal lead was not intentional. Evidence of that was players actually smiling and laughing on the sidelines as GS converted wins into losses. The tanking was blatant, but there wasn't a thing the league could do about it.

Utah has too much integrity to ask players and coaches to lose. As WhiskeyPriest said, it's the GM's job to tank. And Lindsey is doing just that. The youngsters can play as hard as they want. But with no bench, it will be a struggle to win 25-30 games.
 
Core4 said:
GS also had players intentionally lose games. Everyone was in on the fix. I refuse to believe throwing several in-bounds passes away, shooting up airballs, inserting all subs with 1/2 quarter to go and a marginal lead was not intentional. Evidence of that was players actually smiling and laughing on the sidelines as GS converted wins into losses. The tanking was blatant, but there wasn't a thing the league could do about it.

Utah has too much integrity to ask players and coaches to lose. As WhiskeyPriest said, our GM is doing the tanking for Corbin and the players. The youngsters can play as hard as they want. But with no bench, it will be a struggle to win 25-30 games.
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May be there should be different terms for different types of tanking then?

GSW - "The Blatant Tank"

Utah - "The Professional Tank"
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Yep I think this sums up this whole argument. And we won't know that until when the time comes (i.e., 20 games left in the season). I predict there won't be a "deliberate tank" but there will be some "DNPs due to niggling injury". I don't know what you call that - but that's what I've been saying they'll do.

Is that the same as what GST did? If I remembered correctly Bogut & Curry were shut down for the rest of the year. BUT they also pulled a perfectly healthy Klay from the game in the 4th quarter to make sure they lose those games. I don't think we'll ever do that. But I do think there could be some DNPs from Favors/Hayward/Burks/Burke down the stretch.

So may be "professional tank" is a better term....
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Reported for racist comment
 
NCJazz said:
I say if losing the last three games of the season gives us a higher chance of getting #1 I hope Hayward, Favors, etc all come done with the flu. GS did what was best for their franchise and got a heck of a player.
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It was good enough for San Antonio.
 
NCJazz said:
I say if losing the last three games of the season gives us a higher chance of getting #1 I hope Hayward, Favors, etc all come done with the flu. GS did what was best for their franchise and got a heck of a player.
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It would not bother you at all if they did this? Because it absolutely would make me embarrassed to be a fan of a franchise that would.
 
gregbroncs said:
It would not bother you at all if they did this? Because it absolutely would make me embarrassed to be a fan of a franchise that would.
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Freakazoid used to say this regarding the whole GSW tanking situation: "Sometimes it feels like the Jazz FO is playing checkers while the rest of the NBA are playing chess".


That's no longer the case. And I couldn't be happier about it.
 
NCJazz said:
I say if losing the last three games of the season gives us a higher chance of getting #1 I hope Hayward, Favors, etc all come done with the flu. GS did what was best for their franchise and got a heck of a player.
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You've got it wrong. They'd sit because Jefferson, Biedrins, Marvin, McNeal, etc. are going to be FA's and we need to see them against opposing starters to determine whether or not to offer them new contracts.
 
Core4 said:
You've got it wrong. They'd sit because Jefferson, Biedrins, Marvin, McNeal, etc. are going to be FA's and we need to see them against opposing starters to determine whether or not to offer them new contracts.
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If you put it that way, Stoked and PKM are ok with it now.
 
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