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How the Mormons Make Money

catratcho said:
Where did these employees come from? If they just got transferred from another location, those new openings had to be filled. Also, I don't know the exact percentage, but I know quite a few of the new retail stores were new to the state.
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Bringing new stores, with new services, to the SLC area would probably increase the number of jobs.

Employees transferring from suburban locations would not, sincethose employees would not be replaced, due to loss of traffic when business goes to the new center.

This may being in new jobs. It also could follow the path of the St. Louis Centre. I have no idea, and so remain skeptical.
 
TroutBum said:
It's really no secret. I am just amazingly good at what I do. Back pockets, and all.


Ya, that was a total guess that you reported it, and whammo, you just let us all know what a wimp *** bitch you really are. Praise Gordon!



Translation: Ah ****, he's on to me. Quick pretend to say some huge word!



(_)_)HHHHHHHHHD--~~~~ ~~~`~~`~~`~`~`~`
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If it really looks like that then I suggest some plastic surgery because your junk isnt supposed to have ridges...I think that would affect performance.
 
In other words, Trout can send you a PM with specific physical threats and not receive even a yellow card.

Thanks, mods, for running a stupid ship.
 
One Brow said:
Bringing new stores, with new services, to the SLC area would probably increase the number of jobs.

Employees transferring from suburban locations would not, sincethose employees would not be replaced, due to loss of traffic when business goes to the new center.

This may being in new jobs. It also could follow the path of the St. Louis Centre. I have no idea, and so remain skeptical.
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I think you're essentially correct, minus accommodating for consumption growth.

In order for retail to "create jobs" long term & in the aggregate, it needs to innovate by bringing new products onto market or by saving consumers money. In the case of Walmart, the lower prices have been shown to have a domino effect within communities (ducking beggar thy neighbors). If this mall is innovative and saving people money then there's no doubt it's "creating jobs", which is another way of explaining what we mean by rising living standards.

If there's any praise being thrown on the LDS leadership for creating jobs it should start with the timeliness of this project. $2bln being pumped into a $115bln economy in depressive territory is no meaningless amount. That's equivalent to $250bln being pumped into the national economy, or roughly 1/3 Obama's stimulus program. In addition, there's no doubt in my mind that the multiplier effect from this program was way higher than Obama's mangled bill. If there was an equivalent organization in each state then we'd very likely be back to good times, with lower debt load, more stability, higher average incomes, and a positive outlook.

Again, the timeliness of this program could not have been more valuable.
 
franklin said:
I think you're essentially correct, minus accommodating for consumption growth.

In order for retail to "create jobs" long term & in the aggregate, it needs to innovate by bringing new products onto market or by saving consumers money. In the case of Walmart, the lower prices have been shown to have a domino effect within communities (ducking beggar thy neighbors). If this mall is innovative and saving people money then there's no doubt it's "creating jobs", which is another way of explaining what we mean by rising living standards.
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What's an innovative shopping mall? Is it really saving people money? Rising living standards for whom?
 
franklin said:
"If"--are you really asking me or driving the point you've been pushing throughout this thread?
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You are the one person that can teach me something about innovative shopping malls. So, if you got something, I'd love to hear it. But! I don't want the conclusion to come down to some simple statement about the transformation of consuming patterns (I acknowledge this is a possibility, but I want a link to a comprehensive study that shows it... if you can). Nor do I want it to come back to some statement about the centrality of affect and human psychology in the economy (since I already know that, and I see some embrace this as a testament to ignoring true costs of production... cuz that's in our heads too, right?!?).

I'm guessing we both agree that a cost-saving mall doesn't evenly distribute wealth and living standards, so you probably don't even need to go there.

But, seriously, I'm genuinely interested.
 
For example, we might call Ford's living wage "innovative" because it created a middle class of consumers. That radically altered consuming patterns.

I want to hear about a similar transformation (even if less amazing) that resulted from people having jobs that involved executing a retail transaction.

(Also, I loved the comment awhile back about security guards... that's exactly what we need... more surveillance.)
 
As we all know, everyone has an opinion. Those that have an opinion about the church that doesn't agree with church members does not always mean they are against the church. Some are yes but others do have legit reasons to have an opinion. I'm a member, I haven't been to church in years and for my own reasons, I have no desire to ever return. I respect those that go and have nothing against them. If it helps them live a better life or be a better person, good for them.

Now, do I agree the church should have spent this much money on a shopping mall? Not really. I liked Cross Roads Mall and I hated that it was torn down. I will admit, I didn't read the article. Did it say the money for this mall came from tithing money?
 
kwb said:
As we all know, everyone has an opinion. Those that have an opinion about the church that doesn't agree with church members does not always mean they are against the church. Some are yes but others do have legit reasons to have an opinion. I'm a member, I haven't been to church in years and for my own reasons, I have no desire to ever return. I respect those that go and have nothing against them. If it helps them live a better life or be a better person, good for them.

Now, do I agree the church should have spent this much money on a shopping mall? Not really. I liked Cross Roads Mall and I hated that it was torn down. I will admit, I didn't read the article. Did it say the money for this mall came from tithing money?
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I agree that disagreeing with the church on positions does not always equal being against the church. However when they piss and moan about something that has no affect on them it is hard to see them as having anything more than a grudge against the church.

I do not pay tithing, I am not active and I do not live my life in a way that follows the Church's teachings. If a member chooses to pay thier 10% or hell even 30% what business of mine is that? That is between that person and the Church. If it is something they believe in then using words like "rob", "swindle", "extort" and others are nothing but someone trying to grind an ax in my opinion. Why not just say I do not agree or care for having to tithe %10 of my income to a religious entity and call it a day?
 
Stoked said:
I agree that disagreeing with the church on positions does not always equal being against the church. However when they piss and moan about something that has no affect on them it is hard to see them as having anything more than a grudge against the church.

I do not pay tithing, I am not active and I do not live my life in a way that follows the Church's teachings. If a member chooses to pay thier 10% or hell even 30% what business of mine is that? That is between that person and the Church. If it is something they believe in then using words like "rob", "swindle", "extort" and others are nothing but someone trying to grind an ax in my opinion. Why not just say I do not agree or care for having to tithe %10 of my income to a religious entity and call it a day?
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When I was active in the church, I never paid tithing. There are people in the church who feel they are obligated to pay it and then they struggle which I do not agree with. My neighbor for example, great guy, awesome family. They struggle. I feel for him. He pays his tithing. I don't see why he doesn't keep the money to pay some of his bills and provide for his family. I don't believe God would be upset with some one in that position. To each their own.
 
kwb said:
When I was active in the church, I never paid tithing. There are people in the church who feel they are obligated to pay it and then they struggle which I do not agree with. My neighbor for example, great guy, awesome family. They struggle. I feel for him. He pays his tithing. I don't see why he doesn't keep the money to pay some of his bills and provide for his family. I don't believe God would be upset with some one in that position. To each their own.
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That right there I have no problem with. I didn't always pay it either. I just have no problem with some who decides it is worth it. I may not agree with it but I respect that he believes in something enough to do that.
 
Rev - if you post offensive material that pertains to a particular religious group and someone negs you for it, then in return you neg them in retaliation, it makes you a hack of epic proportions.


Signed,


The fifth grade tag you're it posse.
 
NAOS said:
You are the one person that can teach me something about innovative shopping malls. So, if you got something, I'd love to hear it. But! I don't want the conclusion to come down to some simple statement about the transformation of consuming patterns (I acknowledge this is a possibility, but I want a link to a comprehensive study that shows it... if you can). Nor do I want it to come back to some statement about the centrality of affect and human psychology in the economy (since I already know that, and I see some embrace this as a testament to ignoring true costs of production... cuz that's in our heads too, right?!?).
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I didn't know what you were driving at is all. I wrote my post mainly in line with you and OB and thought you may have taken it differently than intended. I was placing general rules on what is required to raise living standards over time (which I thought was inherent to OB's position but expressed as "jobs" rather than advancement). Simply building a retail outlet that accommodates population and consumption growth patterns doesn't do much in the way of raising living standards. There needs to be value added.

As to your true costs of production ideas and requiring endless expansion, I like to say that growth is the nation's false god worshiped in Washington and Wall Street, and is the false idol with the power to mask over many underlying issues. To me though, it's more of a question regarding what we view as valuable than it is about some cap on the expansion of output. We're well underway shifting away from stuff and towards services that don't pressure the earth's resources.

Am I understanding what you're getting at?
 
franklin said:
I didn't know what you were driving at is all. I wrote my post mainly in line with you and OB and thought you may have taken it differently than intended. I was placing general rules on what is required to raise living standards over time (which I thought was inherent to OB's position but expressed as "jobs" rather than advancement). Simply building a retail outlet that accommodates population and consumption growth patterns doesn't do much in the way of raising living standards. There needs to be value added.
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Yes, I understood your post as being mainly in-line with One Brow and myself; you did, however, add some interesting and important complexity to the discussion, so I was wondering if you could apply it specifically to an "innovative mall". I now see more clearly your position re: mall and value.

franklin said:
As to your true costs of production ideas and requiring endless expansion, I like to say that growth is the nation's false god worshiped in Washington and Wall Street, and is the false idol with the power to mask over many underlying issues. To me though, it's more of a question regarding what we view as valuable than it is about some cap on the expansion of output. We're well underway shifting away from stuff and towards services that don't pressure the earth's resources.
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Agreed to a certain extent. The disheartening thing is that while the 'overdeveloped' world is shifting as you say, there is, concomitantly, an increased wealth among the very very few as well as fewer BASIC services get to the majority of the world's population. Also, I really don't see environmental destruction slackening nor do I see the political will to change the course we are on.
 
And... if I'm really pushing things...

The "course we are on" is perhaps best symbolized by a $2bn urban renewal project taking the shape of a shopping mall. Moreover, a mall funded by private interests who, because of the legal protection given to religious groups (which they partially are), don't have to be transparent about their financial makeup.

KABOOM.
 
kwb said:
When I was active in the church, I never paid tithing. There are people in the church who feel they are obligated to pay it and then they struggle which I do not agree with. My neighbor for example, great guy, awesome family. They struggle. I feel for him. He pays his tithing. I don't see why he doesn't keep the money to pay some of his bills and provide for his family. I don't believe God would be upset with some one in that position. To each their own.
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When you are a full tithe payer the church will be more than willing to help you with any necessary bills and or food for your family. Hell, even if you aren't a full tithe payer they will be more than willing to help. I haven't been to church in 10 years and about a month ago the clutch went out in my car, my neighbor heard about it I was telling him I wasn't sure what I was going to do being that I didn't have $1500 just laying around, he talked to the bishop, a few days later someone came and picked up the car and it was brought back the next day with a brand new clutch installed. I didn't ask for a handout, I was really shocked as to the chain of events but it really was a god send so I could get to work. If the church ever needs me to do something to help someone else I would absolutely go out of my way to help them. Pay it forward.
 
NAOS said:
And... if I'm really pushing things...

The "course we are on" is perhaps best symbolized by a $2bn urban renewal project taking the shape of a shopping mall. Moreover, a mall funded by private interests who, because of the legal protection given to religious groups (which they partially are), don't have to be transparent about their financial makeup.

KABOOM.
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Why do you give a rats dick as to what the LDS church does with their money?
 
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