Is Favors in the long-term plans at this point?

[Siro]

There are many... frequently the sum of the parts don’t add up.

Lack of shooting, an obvious defensive weak link, or too many guys that need th ball are the culprits.

Minny, OKC

Honestly the Heat teams were way more talented than their performance... things didn’t fit perfectly but those were super duper stars and they were elite defensively.

Lack of shooting/space murders offenses.

Lakers adding Malone and Payton made them a lot worse. Pippen joining Barkley and Hakeem did not work out. The Nets super team a few years ago did not work out.

Ron Mexico is right, I think, in that people overestimate chemistry a bit. But like when he says "height doesn't matter, only reach does", he's taken a good idea too far.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Tell me some examples of player who are really good that have not fit together? What makes those players not fit together?

The 2013 Lakers? The 2004 Lakers? The Thunder this year? The 2013 and 2014 Nets? The Timberwolves last year, the year before, during the Kevin Love era, arguably this year's Timberwolves?

Spacing. There's one ball. Experience. Chemistry.

Lack of spacing will kill just about any mojo and talent. Fortunately, Favors isn't paint-bound, but the success of his pairing with Gobert hinges largely on the quality of shooters and passers around them. Rubio is a non-starter (double-entendre).

 

[NUMBERICA]

Tell me some examples of player who are really good that have not fit together? What makes those players not fit together?

The 2013 Lakers? The 2004 Lakers? The Thunder this year? The 2013 and 2014 Nets? The Timberwolves last year, the year before, during the Kevin Love era, arguably this year's Timberwolves?

Spacing. There's one ball. Experience. Chemistry.

Lack of spacing will kill just about any mojo and talent. Fortunately, Favors isn't paint-bound, but the success of his pairing with Gobert hinges largely on the quality of shooters and passers around them. Rubio is a non-starter (double-entendre), and even then, I can't be convinced that the pairing is an ideal one.

 

[Ron Mexico]

OKC.

Is Carmelo good?

Is Paul George putting in a solid effort?

Do they have any depth around them?

Who is the good players that don't fit together?

 

[NUMBERICA]

You have to have talent, spacing, and chemistry on both sides of the floor. For example: Mitchell, Porzingis, Gobert, and whoever else the Jazz drudge up/develop is probably a pretty good ****ing team.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Is Carmelo good?

Is Paul George putting in a solid effort?

Do they have any depth around them?

Who is the good players that don't fit together?

Dude, you got what you asked for. You posited - rather ignorantly - that talent always figures itself out. You were provided with many examples where that wasn't the case. Give it up.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Lakers adding Malone and Payton made them a lot worse. Pippen joining Barkley and Hakeem did not work out. The Nets super team a few years ago did not work out.

Ron Mexico is right, I think, in that people overestimate chemistry a bit. But like when he says "height doesn't matter, only reach does", he's taken a good idea too far.

Did they make them worse or was it just getting to be peak Shaq/Kobe cant stand each other and Malone was hitting on Kobe's wife? Weren't they dominating with Malone until he got hurt?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Did they make them worse or was it just getting to be peak Shaq/Kobe cant stand each other and Malone was hitting on Kobe's wife? Weren't they dominating with Malone until he got hurt?

If Malone is healthy they win... that's a bad example.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think because teams are smarter you can't just mash together a big 3 and go win. The pieces have to fit.

Jerebko is not an offensive savant, but putting his shooting on the floor in the place of a non-shooter really helped the offense. Add in that DM and AB got good at creating and viola... what was a train wreck becomes the Spurs offense.

You don't need a ton of isolation scorers and there is a diminishing return on guys that need the ball... OKC struggles in part because Carmelo and RW don't provide a lot of value off ball... add in non-shooters like Roberson and Adams... what happens... losing.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Dude, you got what you asked for. You posited - rather ignorantly - that talent always figures itself out. You were provided with many examples where that wasn't the case. Give it up.

Some times there are rough fits and they work themselves out over time. I have yet to see a good example given though. Some examples of players past their time teaming up does not really convince me much of the argument. Or using OKC as an example or a very young Twolves team.

Look at Miami. Lebron and Wade were a terrible fit. Two players that at the time were not good shooters playing the 2 and 3. They also had 4 and 5 that could not shoot threes back then. But they are elite players and figured it out and made it work. 4 players that could not shoot threes yet they did okay because they had elite talent.

Yes, some lower talent can struggle to fit together. But for the most part I will always take the better player over fit.

I think Gobert and Favors together with Rubio does not work well right now because Rubio is not good enough to play with them. He is a sub par player. Maybe he can improve and fit in but it will take time. Like Miami with the example above it took a little while to figure it out. Although in our case I simply think Rubio is not good enough.

Ultimately what matters here is that Ill take a healthy Favors over a sub par player that can shoot threes for the team.

 

[str8line]

Hayward did not help us win his rookie year. Maybe in a couple games but across the season he hurt us more than he helped. 90% or more of rookies are a liability on the court across the season.

I disagree on that Favors and Hood are higher risks. Most players drafted don't turn out as well as them and even if they do it's after a few years.

Really? I was hyped on him and thought he played well. Rose-colored glasses?

 

[Ron Mexico]

Really? I was hyped on him and thought he played well. Rose-colored glasses?

I am not saying he was bad as a rookie but he was not a factor for us to win. I am not sure what people think about rookies but a guy putting up 5 ppg is not really a factor. More often he hurt us by being on the court, just like the vast majority of rookies. It is a sacrifice to play rookie usually. That is why young teams generally suck.

 

[LoPo]

It isn’t a secret that he is 95% likely to leave...

Agree with NAOS doe... if it was just a second you keep Favs.

I think what could happen is that we move him and take some salary to get a first or prospect.

I don’t think there is anyone that is worth going after in free agency.

We might still look to move Ricky doe... it is partly about playing time for AB, Hood, Royce, and Neto.

Here is my latest crappy trade idea... Ricky and Favs to Phoenix for Dudley and Monroe plus the Milwaukee first they got in the Bledsoe deal.

Dudley and Monroe would both be good options to fill in if we have injuries. Dudley is owed 9.5 next year so we clear a little cap space for next year.

I think Favors is gone. Not sure why he stays unless he just has a man crush on Mitchell.

The Phoenix idea isn't bad, but here is how I would do it:

Favors and Rubio
for
Monroe (expiring), 2 2018 2nd rounders (Phoenix has 4) and their 2019 2nd rounder.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yclt7j4b

Phoenix could become more relevant after this deal. Pretty low risk. If Favors happens to fit, what a great deal.

We get to dump Rubio and pick up some really high 2nd round picks. We would be a Burks dump away from having substantial cap space in a year when so few teams have cap space.



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[Handlogten's Heros]

I think Favors is gone. Not sure why he stays unless he just has a man crush on Mitchell.

The Phoenix idea isn't bad, but here is how I would do it:

Favors and Rubio
for
Monroe (expiring), 2 2018 2nd rounders (Phoenix has 4) and their 2019 2nd rounder.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yclt7j4b

Phoenix could become more relevant after this deal. Pretty low risk. If Favors happens to fit, what a great deal.

We get to dump Rubio and pick up some really high 2nd round picks. We would be a Burks dump away from having substantial cap space in a year when so few teams have cap space.



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The free agent crop is trash doe.

 

[elan_prodigy]

I think Favors is gone. Not sure why he stays unless he just has a man crush on Mitchell.

The Phoenix idea isn't bad, but here is how I would do it:

Favors and Rubio
for
Monroe (expiring), 2 2018 2nd rounders (Phoenix has 4) and their 2019 2nd rounder.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yclt7j4b

Phoenix could become more relevant after this deal. Pretty low risk. If Favors happens to fit, what a great deal.

We get to dump Rubio and pick up some really high 2nd round picks. We would be a Burks dump away from having substantial cap space in a year when so few teams have cap space.



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I think DL just needs to sit down with Favs and find out where hes at. If he wants to get somewhere then make it happen even if we get slight unders for him.

Im coming around to keeping/not rushing Favs out the door if he has any interest in staying. He gives us something different at C and his replacement is still going to cost us $20Mil+/yr anyway. So imo a $16-20Mil/yr for Favs should keep him happy and would be a valuable trade chip to have.

Cavs/Bucks should really be making a move for Favs.

As far as Burks... I think he is showing his value in this league. Always been a bucket getter but has matured and has been smartened up by Snyder so can be really disruptive defensively. Would be a great pick up for a contender. Basically a better Hardaway Jr at half the price.

 

[elan_prodigy]

We could package Favs & Udoh/Bradley and remedy any teams front court issues immediately.

 

[David Stern]

I think that OKC is going to be forced to trade PG. He's going to have almost no value and could be a rental, but I'd give them Favors/Hood for him. I don't think that they're going to get a better offer than that.

 

[David Stern]

I think that the other player who has a legit chance of being traded is DeMarcus Cousins. I'd give them Favors/Hood since he's an expiring as well. Either of those guys, even for a half-season, would be worth the risk to me.

 

[infection]

I think that the other player who has a legit chance of being traded is DeMarcus Cousins. I'd give them Favors/Hood since he's an expiring as well. Either of those guys, even for a half-season, would be worth the risk to me.

Can Boogie play (defend) the 4?

 

[elan_prodigy]

I think that the other player who has a legit chance of being traded is DeMarcus Cousins. I'd give them Favors/Hood since he's an expiring as well. Either of those guys, even for a half-season, would be worth the risk to me.

Would be nice if a 3rd team was involved... Maybe Love as a stop-gap. Im not interested in Cousins though.