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Is Russia Helping Trump?

I wonder how long it will be before the death of the D party is splashed across news headlines for months/years. Like the RNC was the last 4 years. The Ds are far worse off right now than the Rs ever were.

I wont hold my breath.
 
Computer said:
If outside sources want to expose the corruption in our government, then Im all for it. Hack and expose away. I dont understand why any citizen of this counrty would object to it.
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If that's what happened then I still wouldn't like it but that is not what the reports have said Russia has done. Hacking voter registration. Spreading fake news. Hacking emails of lots of different groups and spreading bits and pieces of it after tampering the information is not exposing corruption. Some corruption might have been exposed but it is unreliable. Also it sounds like you have not really read any of the actual information from the emails just opinion pieces about what was in them.
 
Stoked said:
Which I do not think he should have done but to me that is not the same as the vote for who will be a countries leaders.

Also Obama (and by extension America), as far as we know, didn't do this through any allegedly nefarious means like hacking.
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actually exiting the brexit has far more consequences(good or bad is another discussion) then having a leader for 4 years in a separation of powers republic!
 
There's nothing at all I can do, except note an accurate history, about something like the CIA actions against Chile's Salvadore Allende back in the 60's. This is 2016, and cyberwar and fake news are new tools. So far, Russia is the only nation using cyberwar and physical war together. And nobody should be blind to the fact that Russia is using these new tools in an effort to destabilize Western style democracies. They have now used them on us. There have been hints that the intelligence assessment ordered by Obama will include actions taken in previous elections, as well as 2016. The attitude that we must somehow accept actions taken to destabilize our own democracy because we have ourselves made efforts to subvert far leftist regimes in the past just doesn't cut it, IMHO. In fact, I've never been a big fan of the American Empire, to be honest. But, sitting back, and just taking this bull**** from Russia? I don't think so. I said it at the time, "Hillary is OUR bitch, stay the hell out of OUR election!!". And yes, I would like to see Putin pay a price for this. It's a new ball game, and I don't know if Russia now has info on Trump that could prove very useful to Putin. It remains to be seen if they actually hacked the GOP to any degree.

https://www.stratcomcoe.org/download/file/fid/5212
 
DutchJazzer said:
actually exiting the brexit has far more consequences(good or bad is another discussion) then having a leader for 4 years in a separation of powers republic!
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You should start a thread about Obama and his effect on brexit and see if people want to discuss it with you.

This thread is about other countries interfering with American elections and how you feel about it. Some of us think it's a bad thing and some of us (well one of us anyway) think it's a good thing.
 
fishonjazz said:
You should start a thread about Obama and his effect on brexit and see if people want to discuss it with you.

This thread is about other countries interfering with American elections and how you feel about it. Some of us think it's a bad thing and some of us (well one of us anyway) think it's a good thing.
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yes boss will do. stop interfering with my live bro
 
i dont think russia interfered much with the eleciton. i dont think it influenced it.


just democrats and liberals whining looking for excuse
 
Good relations with Russia are needed to help the Chinese oligarchs think twice about the South China Sea.

China fighting for an oil field while the whities do the Arctic. . . .you know. . . .that rainforest at the top of the world during a billion years of Earth history, until the CO2 was depleted.

Globalists crack me up. Dems
whining about second-order influences from Russia while taking Chinese and Arab money to the bank and passing out billions to the premier state sponsor of terror.
 
The point has been made that American interests globally have included covert operations intrusive to the body politic of other nations. The CIA has often been at the center of these activities. This is a part of our history in the era in which we emerged as the premier military power on the planet. Once you delve into that history and know it better, one can find oneself asking if all these covert activities, and the brutal regimes we have at times supported, is "good". Invariably, moral issues crop up once one understands many innocent people die in pursuit of American global interests. It's an "ugly" world out there.

How is history really going to judge the American era? Which way one breaks on that question can lead to the left, or to the right. Breaking far to the right, patriotism can be seen as a secular religion. The emotional component can swamp reason. I'm very leery of emotion swamping reason. It's one big reason Trump's style worried me. And still does. I'm a citizen of Earth, but I don't expect tribalism to lose sway. I expect to die a stranger in a strange land.

The question of hypocrisy, where state intrusion, covertly, into the politics of other states, is not irrelevant here. But the original question was simply "is Russia trying to help Trump?" It's something that made a few appearances in the news cycle during the election. The most sensational moment was, naturally, provided by Trump. When he spoke directly to Russia and invited more revelations, more Hillary emails. But like so much where Trump and this election is concerned, it was in one collective ear, and out the other. Just another surreal moment in a daily litany of surreal moments.

Now, here the question is, suddenly front and center. It's longest run in the news cycle to date. Congrats, lame stream media. Better late then never I guess, Obama. I think the question of CIA intrusions into other nations is a great topic for another thread. Yeah, we've intruded covertly into other nations, but does that mean when we catch a covert sucker punch, we do nothing? Or, if you are the citizenry of the affected nation, you refuse to be pissed off about it? You decide you would rather not be a hypocrite, and just take it and shut up about it? I'm a little extreme here, because I do regard what Putin did as an attack. McCain called it "a form of warfare", and I think we should treat it that seriously. Involving the 2016 election, already seemingly the most important in our lifetimes up to this point(surely that case can be made?). But, fundamentally an attack on our democratic institutions. If a person can't be affronted by that, pissed off by that, but instead dwells on our own "misdeeds", then at the least that is not much respect for our sovereignty. I'm not much of a patriot, but it's plenty enough to piss me off. Has been for many months now.

And if a person can't be pissed at this form of attack of our democracy, but instead sees it dispassionately as doing to us what we've done to others, I can understand "the evil empire" getting there's attitude, not a fan of imperial attitudes toward the globe, but after Putin just killed thousands of children in Aleppo, he's not the kind of guy I let get away with treating us with this kind of disrespect. We pay this guy back.

Some people get a kick out of liberals. I get a kick out of people who don't recognize the level of disrespect toward our country that this represents, and who actually are puzzled by the concern.
 
fishonjazz said:
You are totally missing the point. GF isn't saying anything about hilary being great or anything about hilary at all. He isn't trying to blame Russia for hilary losing. He is saying that Russia being involved in our elections is a bad thing. That should be obvious and everyone should be in agreement on this.
It's really that simple and I will spell it out really simply for the dimwits.... RUSSIA (or any country) INFLUENCING THE OUTCOME OF AMERICAN ELECTIONS IS A BAD THING. regardless of which candidate Russia is trying to help and regardless of what election it is that they are involved in.

Sheesh, this should be such an easy and obvious conclusion for every one to come to.

The fact that Russia went after hilary to try to help trump win isn't the issue. The issue is that Russia being involved in an American election is troubling.
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I think the information that the hackers revealed was the real problem, but the left is doing a good job convincing themselves otherwise.

And if you don't think GF was hyping Hillary as if she was some awesome gift to the electorate then you weren't reading his posts.
 
fishonjazz said:
I'm against other countries being involved in my countries election.

It's sad that you aren't
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So you're saying that you would want to know about the emails if the hack had been conducted by a US Citizen but you don't want to know about the emails because the hack was performed by a non-US citizen? Personally, I would want to know about the emails regardless of who discovered them or which party they embarrassed.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
So you're saying that you would want to know about the emails if the hack had been conducted by a US Citizen but you don't want to know about the emails because the hack was performed by a non-US citizen? Personally, I would want to know about the emails regardless of who discovered them or which party they embarrassed.
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I'm saying that the ends doesn't always justify the means.
 
I
Red said:
The point has been made that American interests globally have included covert operations intrusive to the body politic of other nations. The CIA has often been at the center of these activities. This is a part of our history in the era in which we emerged as the premier military power on the planet. Once you delve into that history and know it better, one can find oneself asking if all these covert activities, and the brutal regimes we have at times supported, is "good". Invariably, moral issues crop up once one understands many innocent people die in pursuit of American global interests. It's an "ugly" world out there.

How is history really going to judge the American era? Which way one breaks on that question can lead to the left, or to the right. Breaking far to the right, patriotism can be seen as a secular religion. The emotional component can swamp reason. I'm very leery of emotion swamping reason. It's one big reason Trump's style worried me. And still does. I'm a citizen of Earth, but I don't expect tribalism to lose sway. I expect to die a stranger in a strange land.

The question of hypocrisy, where state intrusion, covertly, into the politics of other states, is not irrelevant here. But the original question was simply "is Russia trying to help Trump?" It's something that made a few appearances in the news cycle during the election. The most sensational moment was, naturally, provided by Trump. When he spoke directly to Russia and invited more revelations, more Hillary emails. But like so much where Trump and this election is concerned, it was in one collective ear, and out the other. Just another surreal moment in a daily litany of surreal moments.

Now, here the question is, suddenly front and center. It's longest run in the news cycle to date. Congrats, lame stream media. Better late then never I guess, Obama. I think the question of CIA intrusions into other nations is a great topic for another thread. Yeah, we've intruded covertly into other nations, but does that mean when we catch a covert sucker punch, we do nothing? Or, if you are the citizenry of the affected nation, you refuse to be pissed off about it? You decide you would rather not be a hypocrite, and just take it and shut up about it? I'm a little extreme here, because I do regard what Putin did as an attack. McCain called it "a form of warfare", and I think we should treat it that seriously. Involving the 2016 election, already seemingly the most important in our lifetimes up to this point(surely that case can be made?). But, fundamentally an attack on our democratic institutions. If a person can't be affronted by that, pissed off by that, but instead dwells on our own "misdeeds", then at the least that is not much respect for our sovereignty. I'm not much of a patriot, but it's plenty enough to piss me off. Has been for many months now.

And if a person can't be pissed at this form of attack of our democracy, but instead sees it dispassionately as doing to us what we've done to others, I can understand "the evil empire" getting there's attitude, not a fan of imperial attitudes toward the globe, but after Putin just killed thousands of children in Aleppo, he's not the kind of guy I let get away with treating us with this kind of disrespect. We pay this guy back.

Some people get a kick out of liberals. I get a kick out of people who don't recognize the level of disrespect toward our country that this represents, and who actually are puzzled by the concern.
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@Red
Look for the bias in your sources.

Don't assume you are morally superior critiquing American history without considering the other players and their values.

I'd rather be a subject of 'Er Majesty the Queen than any other tyrant.

The U.S. has indeed been co-opted I to serving the Brit survival strategy for over a hundred years, and seduced to serve imperial values, and the UN is a he result of a world strategy hatched by Lord Cecil Rhodes to get moose White racist governance of a sort worldwide that allows o her nations to play around the edges of power.

But no other traditional line has been Ben Approached any concern for human rights.

That's why we see rampaging g genocide in so many nations.

The Democrats have and are destroying their claim to credibility with their willingness to lie wholesale to advance a cause that degrades Hunan rights. Trump still talks Constitution, you know, that old fuddy daddy scrap of parchment that limits the power of government and presumes humans have rights, many of which derived from the Magna Carta.

The ideas of the founders included having no entangling alliances, alliance with none, commerce with all, precisely because, if we followed that, we wouldn't be going to war to preserve a Monarchy, like two world wars, or to support other tyrants. Who knows, maybe other countries could grt their freedom, too.
 
@ Jason and [MENTION=14]colton[/MENTION]. Why don't you ditch that dated autocorrect that has an IQ of -145 and the vocabulary of a nitwit, moron, and imbecile. . . .mathematically the l sat common denominator of the sets.

My IPad mini won't give me enough space to fix those idiotic "corrections".
 
babe said:
I@Red
Look for the bias in your sources.

Don't assume you are morally superior critiquing American history without considering the other players and their values.

I'd rather be a subject of 'Er Majesty the Queen than any other tyrant.

The U.S. has indeed been co-opted I to serving the Brit survival strategy for over a hundred years, and seduced to serve imperial values, and the UN is a he result of a world strategy hatched by Lord Cecil Rhodes to get moose White racist governance of a sort worldwide that allows o her nations to play around the edges of power.

But no other traditional line has been Ben Approached any concern for human rights.

That's why we see rampaging g genocide in so many nations.

The Democrats have and are destroying their claim to credibility with their willingness to lie wholesale to advance a cause that degrades Hunan rights. Trump still talks Constitution, you know, that old fuddy daddy scrap of parchment that limits the power of government and presumes humans have rights, many of which derived from the Magna Carta.

The ideas of the founders included having no entangling alliances, alliance with none, commerce with all, precisely because, if we followed that, we wouldn't be going to war to preserve a Monarchy, like two world wars, or to support other tyrants. Who knows, maybe other countries could grt their freedom, too.
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Your ideology is mysterious. This seems to reflect what might be a neo-conspiratorial view of history that reads like science fiction. Not sure out of what fever induced delirium this arises, but it's all mumbo jumbo when I try to follow it. Inexplicably inscrutable. Alternate universe, glad it's not mine.
 
babe said:
@ Jason and [MENTION=14]colton[/MENTION]. Why don't you ditch that dated autocorrect that has an IQ of -145 and the vocabulary of a nitwit, moron, and imbecile. . . .mathematically the l sat common denominator of the sets.

My IPad mini won't give me enough space to fix those idiotic "corrections".
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Not sure if serious... Jazzfanz doesn't have any autocorrect that I'm aware of. Any autocorrecting that's happening is on your end.
 
fishonjazz said:
I'm saying that the ends doesn't always justify the means.
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Like when the Democratic Party rigs their primaries in order to ensure that Hillary gets the nomination? I agree, especially since it backfired on them so badly that Trump ended up president? I agree. Shame on the Dems and Hillary for their means. I'm glad we got to see what they were up to.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Like when the Democratic Party rigs their primaries in order to ensure that Hillary gets the nomination? I agree, especially since it backfired on them so badly that Trump ended up president? I agree. Shame on the Dems and Hillary for their means. I'm glad we got to see what they were up to.
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I dont like it when this happens.

Yet amazingly, I still don't like it when other countries are involved in our election process.
 
[MENTION=639]Joe Bagadonuts[/MENTION]
Do you think that each election year we should contact the government of a different country and tell them that we want them to investigate our candidates and then trust that government that they don't care who wins and will be totally fair and transparent regarding what they find about each candidate?
 
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