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Islamists kill 12 people in France during attack on newspaper office.

fishonjazz said:
I agree it's beyond ridiculous. But we know that the hornets nest of Islamist extremists is out there and that they are very very irrational and violent when it comes to religion.
So making fun of islams prophet is a risk. Maybe a risk that would be better off not taken.
It's extremely stupid that there are people out there that can get so offended by a silly cartoon to the point of murdering a bunch of innocent people. Unfortunately those people are out there. Hopefully they (violent murdering extremists) all die
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This.

Guys, it's called common sense. If you're this magazine, I guess you make your money from trashy shock effect cartoons. But you know your country has a strong minority of practicing muslims. You know that some are radical. You know radical Islam doesn't like the west. You know drawing Mohammad pisses them off.

What can be gained by this?

It's called common sense... Which somehow many people don't have.

Don't light the powder keg and then claim you had "free speech."

Show some tolerance towards others. Tolerance needs to go both ways here.

Absolutely NOTHING is gained by drawing Mohammad in that manner. Did they deserve to be shot at? No. But did they provoke a response? Absolutely. Now they act as if they're innocent victims. No they're not. Now we have cartoon writers becoming more emboldened and offensive. While muslims feel more and more disrespected. The "us" against the world feeling becomes stronger on both sides.

This isn't going to contribute to peace.

Again, NOTHING, is gained by drawing Mohammad in that manner. Show some tolerance and respect for those in that religion. Especially towards those who are a tad angry and radical.
 
Nothing is gained? Absolutely nothing?? Some people feel strongly about the principle that you must never stop picking away at the white walls of moral extremism. You've characterized the magazine very poorly (I'm shocked). They were easily twice as cunning and interesting as you on your best day. And now you're spewing your righteous pride in your own sense of the matter on the internet, while graves are still fresh. You're an amazing specimen. Let this be sad and horrible for a little while, before you revert back to being a ******.
 
The Thriller said:
This.

Absolutely NOTHING is gained by drawing Mohammad in that manner.
l.
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Well the cartoons made me and other normal people laugh our asses off, and the gift of laughter is a beautiful thing. I thank Charlie Hebdo for that

Religion should be mocked and ridiculed constantly, it is the biggest joke there is

I encourage more people to draw cartoons of the pedophile mohammad
 
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I am absolutely shocked with the disgusting ways people are excusing violence here. Everything is gained by allowing all kinds of dumb and smart ideas to be expressed without threat of violence. EVERYTHING! Freedom of speech and expression is one of the foundations of modern society.

What in fact you are saying is - if there are enough people willing to kill you for something you want to say, you should shut up or you'd be welcoming what's coming to you. In essence this is a license to silence people through threats and fear. Shameful!
 
Yell42 said:
I am absolutely shocked that religion has made people do inhumane things

That hardly ever happens
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Everything has made people do inhuman things, not just religion. During the french revolution people will killing people in the name of freedom. Innocent people.
 
The Blue Elephant said:
Everything has made people do inhuman things, not just religion. During the french revolution people will killing people in the name of freedom. Innocent people.
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Killing in the name of the State, or in an effort to capture the State

VERSUS

Killing in the name of a State religion (examples of global religion birthed by States: Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc.)


You're right to see little/zero distinction.
 
NAOS said:
Killing in the name of the State, or in an effort to capture the State

VERSUS

Killing in the name of a State religion (examples of global religion birthed by States: Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc.)


You're right to see little/zero distinction.
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Ever heard of the guillotine? It was used to kill innocent people who had nothing to do with the state (mixed in with the "corrupt people"). They weren't killed until after the capturing of the state, people who had nothing to do with running the states previous regime. Unless you think freedom is bad than just because something is killed in the name of it doesn't mean anything.
 
These situations are where the American government needs to learn their actions have consequences. they are not dealing with westernised countries
Iraq needed Saddam, Libya needed Gaddafi and Syria needs Assad.
These guys were/are lunatics but they killed or kept these type of people under control.
 
stitches said:
I am absolutely shocked with the disgusting ways people are excusing violence here. Everything is gained by allowing all kinds of dumb and smart ideas to be expressed without threat of violence. EVERYTHING! Freedom of speech and expression is one of the foundations of modern society.

What in fact you are saying is - if there are enough people willing to kill you for something you want to say, you should shut up or you'd be welcoming what's coming to you. In essence this is a license to silence people through threats and fear. Shameful!
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Good post.

But the truth is, if there are enough people willing to kill me for drawing a cartoon then I just don't draw it. Call me a coward, or smart, or whatever. Im going to pick my battles though and drawing offensive stuff is not a battle that im willing to die for.

I guess it's noble or courageous that there are people out there willing to die for silly cartoons though...... of course I would bet that those who died would like a re-do and would probably choose life over the cartoon if given the choice
 
Jose_Ortiz_fan said:
I'm not sure if I could even have a civilized conversation with a person who uses the denigration "islamist."
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Im sorry if I said something offensive. For what it's worth (maybe very little, idk) I didn't just say islamists... I actually used the term islamist extremists
 
fishonjazz said:
Good post.

But the truth is, if there are enough people willing to kill me for drawing a cartoon then I just don't draw it. Call me a coward, or smart, or whatever. Im going to pick my battles though and drawing offensive stuff is not a battle that im willing to die for.

I guess it's noble or courageous that there are people out there willing to die for silly cartoons though...... of course I would bet that those who died would like a re-do and would probably choose life over the cartoon if given the choice
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The question is not if you'd be willing to make a drawing. The question is whether it is OK for anyone to threaten you or even worse - to carry out the threats for something you hold dear and have expressed. I don't know if you are religious, if you have some strong ideals or positions... imagine an extremist group threatens to kill you if you keep speaking about it, whatever it is(religion, political ideas, etc.).

In this case the nature of the carictures is immaterial. It doesn't matter what they portray, I might not agree with whatever they portray or I might not find it tasteful or I might not find it particularly important as an issue, but the underlying principle is much more important to defend, because the underlying principle that protects their right to publish cartoons is the same one that will defend your right to express whatever views you hold most dear without fear of persecution or violence.

You understand that once those people and others are shown that threats and instilling fear works, there will be no end to it, right? All kinds of extremist groups will be able to silence all kinds of positions, simply through violence or threat of violence. Do you really want to live in a society where the only positions you can hear are the ones held by the people most willing to go through with their threats of violence, with the rest being either submitted into silence or killed for their ideas?
 
stitches said:
You understand that once those people and others are shown that threats and instilling fear works, there will be no end to it, right? All kinds of extremist groups will be able to silence all kinds of positions, simply through violence or threat of violence. Do you really want to live in a society where the only positions you can hear are the ones held by the people most willing to go through with their threats of violence, with the rest being either submitted into silence or killed for their ideas?
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I'm pointing out this paragraph because it's key. If you allow yourself to get bullied and bury your head in the ground like an ostrich watch how the problem just spreads like the Black Plague. It hasn't got too ugly here yet but I by the time I left Spain there was a real cultural clash starting to emerge, and it's even worse in France. But again, you have to ask yourself, WHO has caused this to happen? And start pointing fingers accordingly.
 
stitches said:
The question is not if you'd be willing to make a drawing. The question is whether it is OK for anyone to threaten you or even worse - to carry out the threats for something you hold dear and have expressed. I don't know if you are religious, if you have some strong ideals or positions... imagine an extremist group threatens to kill you if you keep speaking about it, whatever it is(religion, political ideas, etc.).

In this case the nature of the carictures is immaterial. It doesn't matter what they portray, I might not agree with whatever they portray or I might not find it tasteful or I might not find it particularly important as an issue, but the underlying principle is much more important to defend, because the underlying principle that protects their right to publish cartoons is the same one that will defend your right to express whatever views you hold most dear without fear of persecution or violence.

You understand that once those people and others are shown that threats and instilling fear works, there will be no end to it, right? All kinds of extremist groups will be able to silence all kinds of positions, simply through violence or threat of violence. Do you really want to live in a society where the only positions you can hear are the ones held by the people most willing to go through with their threats of violence, with the rest being either submitted into silence or killed for their ideas?
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Great post
 
Australia.. now France?? More excutions carried out ...


It might be that in the future we refuse any islamic migrants or tourists. That might be the only way to solve this issue long term. I know its the actions of a few that ruined it for all muslims but it cant be helped can it to stop all this madness?
 
I did some half-assed research on the term "islamist" and the results were underwhelming. Some say it's racist, others claim its integrity to explain a terroristic phenomenon. I recognize I have a strong emotionally based position on the use of this word. This, like many if not all of our attitudes, is determined by how we feel about it. But YOLO anyways dudes. Sorry I think I got a little heated last night ~@~
 
ONE LOVE said:
Australia.. now France?? More excutions carried out ...


It might be that in the future we refuse any islamic migrants or tourists. That might be the only way to solve this issue long term. I know its the actions of a few that ruined it for all muslims but it cant be helped can it to stop all this madness?
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Well said, we should all follow suit and Love Life, I'll take Lindsey rawwwr
 
Jose_Ortiz_fan said:
I did some half-assed research on the term "islamist" and the results were underwhelming. Some say it's racist, others claim its integrity to explain a terroristic phenomenon. I recognize I have a strong emotionally based position on the use of this word. This, like many if not all of our attitudes, is determined by how we feel about it. But YOLO anyways dudes. Sorry I think I got a little heated last night ~@~
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Calm down and relax Pepe
 
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