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Jazz acquire Novak from Raptors

kabenac said:
Then give us two seconds. One second isn't enough. For his first seven years Novak was getting paid less than $1,000,000 each season.

How much can a second round pick be bought for?

Also, you make it sound like we only got one first round pick from GS. We received 5 draft picks and cash considerations - two unprotected firsts and three seconds.
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We took on $24M in salaries (Biedrins, RJ and Rush). Also, one of those picks was added by Denver to get us to sign and trade Foye, so 4 picks from GS. So we take on about 1/8th of the salary. Again, though, you have to consider supply and demand. There are multiple teams with cap space. Last year we were the ONLY team able to absorb $24M. GS had a real need; Iggy was there for the taking and they HAD to clear space. Toronto doesn't really need to clear Novak off their books.

Another way to look at it is we got the 1sts for clearing the albatross contracts of Biedrins and RJ ($11M and $9M) and seconds for Rush and Foye. OK, we also got cash and an additional 2nd. Highly motivate seller: had to get the deal done immediately!

Now, assume 'Melo wants to sign with Houston or Lebron with Cleveland. Those teams HAVE to clear cap space and may give up a 1st to do so (contracts of Jack and Lin).
 
VINYLONE said:
That's kind of cold. And sort of mean.


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I was wishing him luck! I truly wish him luck. He is a decent player. :D
 
Core4 said:
We took on $24M in salaries (Biedrins, RJ and Rush). Also, one of those picks was added by Denver to get us to sign and trade Foye, so 4 picks from GS. So we take on about 1/8th of the salary. Again, though, you have to consider supply and demand. There are multiple teams with cap space. Last year we were the ONLY team able to absorb $24M. GS had a real need; Iggy was there for the taking and they HAD to clear space. Toronto doesn't really need to clear Novak off their books.

Another way to look at it is we got the 1sts for clearing the albatross contracts of Biedrins and RJ ($11M and $9M) and seconds for Rush and Foye. OK, we also got cash and an additional 2nd. Highly motivate seller: had to get the deal done immediately!

Now, assume 'Melo wants to sign with Houston or Lebron with Cleveland. Those teams HAVE to clear cap space and may give up a 1st to do so (contracts of Jack and Lin).
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OK - I will agree with the supply and demand statement. I still think DL likes Novak for us to be doing this. Also, I have a bad taste in my mouth due to the way DL traded our 2nd in this draft for the Memphis 2nd so maybe that's why I'm annoyed we merely got a 2nd (especially since Toronto had a great season and is in the Eastern Conference - they should definitely be making the playoffs again next season).

The Novak contract isn't awful but Toronto wasn't playing him so I feel like DL did them a favor. I'm Hoping Novak plays well and gets some minutes so the trade is a good one for us. And I also hope Garrett finds another NBA team to play for.
 
kabenac said:
OK - I will agree with the supply and demand statement. I still think DL likes Novak for us to be doing this. Also, I have a bad taste in my mouth due to the way DL traded our 2nd in this draft for the Memphis 2nd so maybe that's why I'm annoyed we merely got a 2nd (especially since Toronto had a great season and is in the Eastern Conference - they should definitely be making the playoffs again next season).

The Novak contract isn't awful but Toronto wasn't playing him so I feel like DL did them a favor. I'm Hoping Novak plays well and gets some minutes so the trade is a good one for us. And I also hope Garrett finds another NBA team to play for.
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We get the better 2nd rounder from toronto/celtics for trading ours to the grizzlies btw.
 
Core4 said:
And then we're left with a team that can defend, but not shoot, which is just as bad. What we need are 2-way players. Exum fits that description (we think). Hayward is adequate. Favors probably, although he seemed to take a giant leap backwards. A "system" will certainly help some. After all, the worst defensive player the Jazz had two seasons ago played on a pretty good defensive team last year. And it's not like he suddenly became an all-NBA level defender.

I do agree we need a couple of "3 and D" players. Bazemore would be a good addition. I don't like Aminu. He's a complete liability on the offensive side. Let's at least play 4 1/2 on 5.
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How many 2-way players does the Spurs have?



Just saying'
 
Hekate said:
Leonard, Green, Diaw. Timmy to some degree as well.
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That's my point though.. not a lot..



If you have a good defensive system already in place I would rather have smart and committed players who can knock down open shots preferbly 3 pointers.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Wow.. are you still here???



And I don't mean that in a bad way. Just thought you would have left since the Jazz didn't draft Vonleh????
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It never was about getting 'my guy' my concern was drafting the one player I absolutely didn't want. (I really didn't want Marcus Smart either)

Trigger-finger Trey, Hayward and his Iverson-esque shooting %'s , and Air(ball) Gordon just doesn't do it for me. Thats not enough shooting, Its a terrible answer to the question of how to fix the offense. Id forsee Gordon having to play PF next to Favors, thats not big enough to get it done in the playoffs, so why waste all this time..
 
kabenac said:
OK - I will agree with the supply and demand statement. I still think DL likes Novak for us to be doing this. Also, I have a bad taste in my mouth due to the way DL traded our 2nd in this draft for the Memphis 2nd so maybe that's why I'm annoyed we merely got a 2nd (especially since Toronto had a great season and is in the Eastern Conference - they should definitely be making the playoffs again next season).

The Novak contract isn't awful but Toronto wasn't playing him so I feel like DL did them a favor. I'm Hoping Novak plays well and gets some minutes so the trade is a good one for us. And I also hope Garrett finds another NBA team to play for.
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You have a bad taste in your mouth due to one lousy 2nd round pick after that draft? Unbelievable.
 
kabenac said:
Yep. And if you read the Stokes thread you'll see I'm not the only one. So it's not unbelievable. At all.
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You are right, it's not unbelievable. Unreasonable sure.

All the Jazz did is swap 2nd rounders, That's it. They did so as this is a VERY young team and DL more than likely didn't want 3 more rookies.
 
kabenac said:
Yep. And if you read the Stokes thread you'll see I'm not the only one. So it's not unbelievable. At all.
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I was bummed too but then I thought about the other four or five amazing things Lindsey has done and realize that those FAAAAAAARRRR outweigh one 2nd rounder for 2nd rounder trade.
 
I would have much preferred a Euro-stash (heck, even an American player who would agree to play a season or two in Europe before playing for the Jazz).
 
kabenac said:
I would have much preferred a Euro-stash (heck, even an American player who would agree to play a season or two in Europe before playing for the Jazz).
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So would I but DL had been nothing short of a genius to that point so I really shouldn't have had a reason to be so exaggeratedly pissed or not trusted him.
 
Doublea said:
Wasn't novak a pretty good piece to that 54ish win Knicks team two seasons ago?
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He played 20mpg for a team with a top 5 scorer and a defensive philosophy which revolved around just scoring more points than their opponent. I won't go as far to say the 2012-13 Knicks were a fluke but I will say they were not nearly as good as their record indicated.

Novak should be in Utah for zone busting and taking advantage of bad perimeter defending teams. Anything more than that any you're asking for trouble.
 
Core4 said:
And then we're left with a team that can defend, but not shoot, which is just as bad. What we need are 2-way players. Exum fits that description (we think). Hayward is adequate. Favors probably, although he seemed to take a giant leap backwards. A "system" will certainly help some. After all, the worst defensive player the Jazz had two seasons ago played on a pretty good defensive team last year. And it's not like he suddenly became an all-NBA level defender.

I do agree we need a couple of "3 and D" players. Bazemore would be a good addition. I don't like Aminu. He's a complete liability on the offensive side. Let's at least play 4 1/2 on 5.
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If you can find me these 2-way players in this FA economy, and then put together deals that would bring them to Utah, then I'll be really impressed.
 
Hekate said:
Leonard, Green, Diaw. Timmy to some degree as well.
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Manu's European flopping counts as good defense. Duncan has been an All-Defensive team selection many times. I think he counts as the king of 2-way players and the reason that SA des play great defense.
 
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