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Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

Handlogten's Heros said:
If we allow them to put protections on the best picks then their package gets so much less sexy. Danny wants em unprotected. I don't think there is a deal with protections on the 27 and 29 picks. I think they view Don as the "first star" and that those picks will not be lotto picks... I also think Knicks FO are looking to save their jobs rather than think that long term.

I "scoffed" ( a very strong word to use given I said "the knicks deal may not be there") at the idea that the Knicks would come forward because at the time the noise was that they didn't see Don and Jalen as a fit and also that they weren't on Don's list... so if in that time Don said, actually I'd rather go there and their motivations changed then great. Basically I said the Knicks package may not be there... and if it isn't now... then why would it be later. Why drag it out. Honestly if they are giving 23/25 and protected 27 with their other less sexy picks I am again not sure the Miami package is worse depending on if the Heat can get 2 protected picks for Herro and amend the OKC protections. So I said basically we should push forward on the Miami deal as if we will execute to bring the best offers to surface... and if they aren't better... then execute (assuming we valued Herro or could get more draft capital).
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I don't doubt that Danny wants them unprotected, never did. I think there is a deal without the 29 pick. Is there a deal without both? I don't think so. Is there a deal with 27 only and protections....we'll see.

The receipts are there. Whether you "scoffed" or not, I can directly quote your disbelief that the Knicks would do such a thing. You weren't wrong about that hesitation. There is great hesitation to do such a thing and you can refer to yourself if you've forgotten why that is.
 
I like Obi well enough. He's at least got the potential to be a Marcus Morris-level scorer. He might also be able to play some minutes at the 5. I don't care about Quickley.
 
It seems Ainge is obsessed with get players still on their rookie contracts. What is the magic to that? Why these three Knick players vs Justin James, Carsen Edwards and Jared Wilson Frame? Guys that have passed through here and are putting up similar summer league numbers.
 
KqWIN said:
I don't doubt that Danny wants them unprotected, never did. I think there is a deal without the 29 pick. Is there a deal without both? I don't think so. Is there a deal with 27 only and protections....we'll see.

The receipts are there. Whether you "scoffed" or not, I can directly quote your disbelief that the Knicks would do such a thing. You weren't wrong about that hesitation. There is great hesitation to do such a thing and you can refer to yourself if you've forgotten why that is.
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They shouldn't do it... I wouldn't. This deal doesn't make them a contender. It sounded as if they'd be more patient and hope to get Donovan later, but if not they get a different guy for cheaper. But if they say he we will do 2027 w/o protections but not 2029 I think that's a weird place to get a conscience. If they protect 27 and forego 29 then there is no deal. I would take Heat picks unprotected in 23/27/29 with swaps in between over 23/25 unprotected and protected 27 pick plus the other protected picks. I think Herro might get you more in a trade than Quickley/Toppin/Grimes.

I think Danny is going for a legacy trade here... gets a record number of picks and also spurns Pat Riley (while having two of his guys in house in Fizz and Wade).
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
They shouldn't do it... I wouldn't. This deal doesn't make them a contender. It sounded as if they'd be more patient and hope to get Donovan later, but if not they get a different guy for cheaper. But if they say he we will do 2027 w/o protections but not 2029 I think that's a weird place to get a conscience. If they protect 27 and forego 29 then there is no deal. I would take Heat picks unprotected in 23/27/29 with swaps in between over 23/25 unprotected and protected 27 pick plus the other protected picks. I think Herro might get you more in a trade than Quickley/Toppin/Grimes.

I think Danny is going for a legacy trade here... gets a record number of picks and also spurns Pat Riley (while having two of his guys in house in Fizz and Wade).
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Of course he's going for a legacy trade, but the other team has to agree with it. I do think there is a large difference between 27 + 29 without protections and just 27. Everyone's been telling me how important that 29 is, I don't necessarily disagree and that's why 27+29 is different than 27 alone.
 
Mongoose said:
Knicks will cave and the Jazz get 6 picks Toppin, McBride, Quickley, Grimes
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I think they really want to keep Grimes. He's a 3 and D wing they will need. Toppin is not going to be fully utilized until Randle is gone and he will be there. Quickley with Brunson and Don will be marginalized. They could move those guys in other deals for stuff they need. I think we'd like Grimes but know they want him... so he becomes a pressure point for other stuff. 6 picks is the magic number I think... I think Knicks retain Grimes... I think Randle isn't in the deal... no idea on the other stuff.
 
homeytennis said:
It seems Ainge is obsessed with get players still on their rookie contracts. What is the magic to that? Why these three Knick players vs Justin James, Carsen Edwards and Jared Wilson Frame? Guys that have passed through here and are putting up similar summer league numbers.
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Jazz need a top-tier star, preferably more than one. To get those stars, the Jazz will need to draft them. Then they need young, supporting talent with the ability to play a role. Getting more young prospects gives them more potential to hit on one or two of them. At the same time, the Jazz have pushed their timeline back and want young players that fit the new timeline.
 
KqWIN said:
Of course he's going for a legacy trade, but the other team has to agree with it. I do think there is a large difference between 27 + 29 without protections and just 27. Everyone's been telling me how important that 29 is, I don't necessarily disagree and that's why 27+29 is different than 27 alone.
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I think 29 gets in there... maybe top 4 protected... but it will be in there.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think they really want to keep Grimes. He's a 3 and D wing they will need. Toppin is not going to be fully utilized until Randle is gone and he will be there. Quickley with Brunson and Don will be marginalized. They could move those guys in other deals for stuff they need. I think we'd like Grimes but know they want him... so he becomes a pressure point for other stuff. 6 picks is the magic number I think... I think Knicks retain Grimes... I think Randle isn't in the deal... no idea on the other stuff.
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Grimes is an absolute must for the Jazz imo
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
They shouldn't do it... I wouldn't. This deal doesn't make them a contender. It sounded as if they'd be more patient and hope to get Donovan later, but if not they get a different guy for cheaper. But if they say he we will do 2027 w/o protections but not 2029 I think that's a weird place to get a conscience. If they protect 27 and forego 29 then there is no deal. I would take Heat picks unprotected in 23/27/29 with swaps in between over 23/25 unprotected and protected 27 pick plus the other protected picks. I think Herro might get you more in a trade than Quickley/Toppin/Grimes.

I think Danny is going for a legacy trade here... gets a record number of picks and also spurns Pat Riley (while having two of his guys in house in Fizz and Wade).
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I'm concerned Ainge is being a little psychotic here. Giving the Knicks time to think and gauging the reaction of fans I think plays out poorly for the Jazz the longer it goes on and if we miss a deal because we're making a sticking point about Grimes or one pick then that is the other side of the coin of how Ainge operates. We don't need to make ashes of the other team in the deal, and we don't have to nuke the ashes either. It's great this worked with Minnesota, but Ainge could afford to have a little more DL in him instead of continue to cultivate resentment among other front offices.

If it's two picks and ****, just pass. If it's four picks and swaps then operate in good faith. Please, Danny.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think they really want to keep Grimes. He's a 3 and D wing they will need. Toppin is not going to be fully utilized until Randle is gone and he will be there. Quickley with Brunson and Don will be marginalized. They could move those guys in other deals for stuff they need. I think we'd like Grimes but know they want him... so he becomes a pressure point for other stuff. 6 picks is the magic number I think... I think Knicks retain Grimes... I think Randle isn't in the deal... no idea on the other stuff.
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Its hard to imagine these players being the hold up for NY. The deal really doesn't seem like too much especially when you compare it with the Rudy trade. I guess I could see some of the hold up being protections or something that NY wants to work through today. I think it's close and I wouldn't expect this package to need to change much to get done.
 
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