Jazz have arguably the worst bench in the league

[Diamond77]

Unfortunately this thread was not an overreaction.

 

[gregbroncs]

Unfortunately this thread was not an overreaction.

Yes it absolutely is. This post is just further overreaction.
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When you are missing 3 starters of course your bench will look bad, because your bench is now starting instead. Even if you exclude Exum they were missing 2 major pieces from this season's roster against Orlando.

 

[fgcamel]

Yes it absolutely is. This post is just further overreaction.
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When you are missing 3 starters of course your bench will look bad, because your bench is now starting instead. Even if you exclude Exum they were missing 2 major pieces from this season's roster against Orlando.

And favors having to sit for most of the night as well

 

[Hitman]

At the 5:00 minute mark of the first quarter we were down 16-2. That wasn't because of our bench.

 

[fgcamel]

At the 5:00 minute mark of the first quarter we were down 16-2. That wasn't because of our bench.

Favors left the game at 2-6. That means our front court was a combination of Lyles, Pleiss, Booker and Withey for the rest of the quarter (and Withey, who looked the most helpful, only got the last two minutes).

 

[Hitman]

Favors left the game at 2-6. That means our front court was a combination of Lyles, Pleiss, Booker and Withey for the rest of the quarter (and Withey, who looked the most helpful, only got the last two minutes).

That doesn't matter - Favors was playing poorly anyway. And none of the front court were responsible for guarding Fournier. This is what the team did from tip-off until we were down 16-2:

Derrick Favors lost ball turnover (Nikola Vucevic steals)
Elfrid Payton personal foul (Raul Neto draws the foul)
Nikola Vucevic blocks Gordon Hayward 's 2-foot layup
Trey Lyles defensive rebound
Derrick Favors misses 10-foot two point shot
Alec Burks misses 20-foot two point jumper
Derrick Favors shooting foul (Evan Fournier draws the foul)
Alec Burks back court turnover
Derrick Favors misses 18-foot jumper
Gordon Hayward lost ball turnover (Evan Fournier steals)
Elfrid Payton bad pass (Derrick Favors steals)
Gordon Hayward makes 14-foot two point shot
Derrick Favors personal foul (Nikola Vucevic draws the foul) - Favors leaves game, score 6-2
Tibor Pleiss blocks Nikola Vucevic's layup
Gordon Hayward defensive rebound
Raul Neto misses two point shot
Trey Lyles misses layup
Trey Lyles defensive rebound
Trey Lyles misses 25-foot three point jumper
Gordon Hayward misses 26-foot three point jumper
Raul Neto bad pass - Orlando scores to make it score 16-2 with 5:09 in the quarter. Fournier had 9 points at this point - he finished with 21.

Notice how often the names of the starters appear in this list? Turning it over, getting blocked, fouling, missing shots? This game was gone before anyone on the bench became a factor. The starters came out asleep, Orlando made them pay.

 

[fgcamel]

That doesn't matter - Favors was playing poorly anyway. And none of the front court were responsible for guarding Fournier. This is what the team did from tip-off until we were down 16-2:

Derrick Favors lost ball turnover (Nikola Vucevic steals)
Elfrid Payton personal foul (Raul Neto draws the foul)
Nikola Vucevic blocks Gordon Hayward 's 2-foot layup
Trey Lyles defensive rebound
Derrick Favors misses 10-foot two point shot
Alec Burks misses 20-foot two point jumper
Derrick Favors shooting foul (Evan Fournier draws the foul)
Alec Burks back court turnover
Derrick Favors misses 18-foot jumper
Gordon Hayward lost ball turnover (Evan Fournier steals)
Elfrid Payton bad pass (Derrick Favors steals)
Gordon Hayward makes 14-foot two point shot
Derrick Favors personal foul (Nikola Vucevic draws the foul) - Favors leaves game, score 6-2
Tibor Pleiss blocks Nikola Vucevic's layup
Gordon Hayward defensive rebound
Raul Neto misses two point shot
Trey Lyles misses layup
Trey Lyles defensive rebound
Trey Lyles misses 25-foot three point jumper
Gordon Hayward misses 26-foot three point jumper
Raul Neto bad pass - Orlando scores to make it score 16-2 with 5:09 in the quarter. Fournier had 9 points at this point - he finished with 21.

Notice how often the names of the starters appear in this list? Turning it over, getting blocked, fouling, missing shots? This game was gone before anyone on the bench became a factor. The starters came out asleep, Orlando made them pay.

Whatever happens at the completion of the play should be seen as a reflection of the team as a whole on that possession, not just the person who missed the shot, so none of that means much to me. If we aren't trying to patch together a team I'm sure the offense runs more smoothly. And the defense was worse than the offense anyway

 

[Hitman]

Whatever happens at the completion of the play should be seen as a reflection of the team as a whole on that possession, not just the person who missed the shot, so none of that means much to me. If we aren't trying to patch together a team I'm sure the offense runs more smoothly. And the defense was worse than the offense anyway

Rubbish. If Hayward and Favors played well and shot 100% with no turnovers and had put us in front, you wouldn't be giving credit to Lyles, so don't blame him for their repeated miscues, either. The fact is that the starters - the three regular starters - played poorly to start the game, and that's on them. Burks, who is supposed to be good enough to start in place of Hood anyway, also played poorly. Lyles being in for Rudy should make no difference to our offence, neither are a scoring threat, but he at least grabbed a couple of rebounds, and making him the scapegoat for the starting unit's failure is just absurd.

 

[fgcamel]

Rubbish. If Hayward and Favors played well and shot 100% with no turnovers and had put us in front, you wouldn't be giving credit to Lyles, so don't blame him for their repeated miscues, either. The fact is that the starters - the three regular starters - played poorly to start the game, and that's on them. Burks, who is supposed to be good enough to start in place of Hood anyway, also played poorly. Lyles being in for Rudy should make no difference to our offence, neither are a scoring threat, but he at least grabbed a couple of rebounds, and making him the scapegoat for the starting unit's failure is just absurd.

But my point is that with those lineups on the floor it makes it much more difficult for guys like hayward and favors to operate on offense and even more so on defense which is where my concern really is. I really feel like you are underestimating the value of a team dynamic.

And I'm not trying ti make lyles the scapegoat, if I'm making anything a scapegoat it's the injuries, and favor's foul trouble.

 

[Diamond77]

Jazz bench is very weak.

 

[MT Steve]

Trevor Booker has the 2nd lowest TS% in the NBA. Trey Lyles has the 5th lowest.

God help the Jazz every game that Favors or Gobert get in foul trouble.

At least Withey has been serviceable, albeit in a small sample size.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Jazz bench is very weak.

I agree with this. DL was talking about being loyal to the process of developing our young talent, but our bench is so devoid of offense and depth in the front court, that it looks like we're not that committed to winning this year.

If you're keeping score right now, you'll notice that Millsap, Johnson, Pleiss, and Lyles are either not playing or not performing much at all when they do, and this is being generous to Booker and Ingles.

 

[Diamond77]

I agree with this. DL was talking about being loyal to the process of developing our young talent, but our bench is so devoid of offense and depth in the front court, that it looks like we're not that committed to winning this year.

I have the same sensation. It seems like it is not a priority for the Jazz to make the playoffs this season. It would be a mistake because this team needs playoff experience.

 

[NAOS]

I agree with this. DL was talking about being loyal to the process of developing our young talent, but our bench is so devoid of offense and depth in the front court, that it looks like we're not that committed to winning this year.

If you're keeping score right now, you'll notice that Millsap, Johnson, Pleiss, and Lyles are either not playing or not performing much at all when they do, and this is being generous to Booker and Ingles.

but we have too many cakks and pies??

 

[Diamond77]

Thanks to the Jazz management that have preferred to keep their money in their pocket rather than improving the bench and making easily the playoffs this season!

Thanks to Lindsey as well for his passivity on free agency and trades! Burke has zero trade value after sitting him the last 20-25 games.

Next season will be decisive for the combo Quin and Lindsey.

 

[Boris]

What is this? Jazz bench was fine all season. The problem is clearly 1-5 not 6-10. Ingles Burke Burks Booker Lyles Neto is a fine bench for any team. Name me one team more loaded bench than Jazz.

Jazz need a star but we are getting KD soon so I will say no more of this.

 

[Jeffrey32]

Whithey should have played in the second half last night some real minutes with Gobert going down and Favors hobbled. When Gobert was out for a stretch, Whithey filled in admirably and he could have clogged the lane last night some.

Maybe because I am a Michigan guy, I am a Burke supporter and think he should be Utah's back-up PG, especially in situations where the Jazz are struggling on offense. For a team, Burke has the potential to be a Bobby Jackson and provide a spark. For a team that rarely cracks 100, that is important.

Those two guys getting splinters last night and not getting into the game significantly might have cost the Jazz a win.

 

[Diamond77]

Whithey should have played in the second half last night some real minutes with Gobert going down and Favors hobbled. When Gobert was out for a stretch, Whithey filled in admirably and he could have clogged the lane last night some.

Maybe because I am a Michigan guy, I am a Burke supporter and think he should be Utah's back-up PG, especially in situations where the Jazz are struggling on offense. For a team, Burke has the potential to be a Bobby Jackson and provide a spark. For a team that rarely cracks 100, that is important.

Those two guys getting splinters last night and not getting into the game significantly might have cost the Jazz a win.

I wanted to see both players in yesterday's game too. Quin should give us some explications why he decided to set aside both players during the season.

In my opinon if Burke had gotten his minutes like the first part of the season, maybe we would have played the playoffs. He was averaging good offense numbers before the All-Star break.

 

[homeytennis]

I wanted to see both players in yesterday's game too. Quin should give us some explications why he decided to set aside both players during the season.

In my opinon if Burke had gotten his minutes like the first part of the season, maybe we would have played the playoffs. He was averaging good offense numbers before the All-Star break.

I think the big trade that really hurt this year was the trade of Kanter and what the Jazz got back. Hindsight being what it is the Jazz should have kept him then matched any offer. Who coming off our bench averaged 12 points and 8 boards in 20 minutes?

 

[Stifle Tower]

I think Quin and Dennis have already decided Burke and perhaps Withey will not be with Utah next year. So why give them a lot of minutes? This isn't Corbin with RJ.

Put the other players in pressure situations and let them sink or swim. Maybe, just maybe, one of them will be motivated by failure, just like Kobe after his infamous airball game.