Miggs
Well-Known Member
It has to be Clarkson imo.
Jazz Offseason Plan
- Thread starter Avery
- Start date
It has to be Clarkson imo.
I think a Nance for Royce swap would be big. I know a lot of people would have beef with it and the values may be closer, but having Nance gives us the ability to run a defense that was elite in the same way it was when we ran the Rudy/Favors combo. It would allow Rudy to contest more because there was someone bigger who was covering for him on the defensive glass and also covering he lane that opens up when he contests. It can’t be defeated by small ball and the things like a Capela or Ayton lob are much more neutralized. Despite being a worse three point shooter, he’d play the same role on offense because he still would have to be guarded on the perimeter and it’s fine if he’s shooting open threes, and that’s how Royce is getting them. Royce isn’t shooting as many threes to begin with and Nance would help with more offensive versatility. Ability to secure rebounds in clutch situations would change. It would also force Quin to find another option to guard small guards. If you were able to get an OPJ or Craig to fill in then that’d be huge. I know some of this is considered heresy.
This would be awesome.
I think a Niang S&T to Orlando for OPj S&T at $4-6 million for a year (or two?) might make a lot of sense, specifically because I think Orlando is starting to see the light on the importance of spacing and I seem to remember Niang going off on them a couple of times.
Miggs
Well-Known Member
I don’t think we can trade Royce. We need more of those guys on defense. Not less. If we traded Clarkson for someone far, far cheaper and a pick, and then signed Batum to the MLE, we’d be a better team IMO. Or Nader even. I just don’t think we have this huge need for Clarkson’s instant offense as much and the additions of Butler, Doke, and Batum or Nader should help in that regard. Our bigger need is on the defensive end and trading Royce hurts that. Even if it is for Nance.
When my grandma died I inherited a large amount of whiskey that I’d be willing to use to grease the wheels on this trade.
I think it makes us better on defense because you add a guy with great size and rebounding and then force Quin to use someone else on small guards.
Miggs
Well-Known Member
If we traded Clarkson into space for a pick(s), wouldn’t we then be below the tax (if Conley’s deal is in fact 20 per) and have the non-taxpayer MLE? And we could then split it on OPJ and Nader. Or use the full one on Batum if we can get him to bite. And maybe coerce Nader into the vet minimum.
campaignist
Well-Known Member
I really think people are forgetting how wretched the bench’s offense was before Clarkson arrived. Trading him without at least one more scorer/creator off the bench (which they don’t currently have) would be a disaster.
Ineptimusprime
Well-Known Member
I would be very surprised if anyone else besides Bogey or Ingles were traded this offseason.
Miggs
Well-Known Member
Who? That’s my point. Donovan? Conley? Don’t love the idea. I think we can dump Clarkson’s one dimensional play for a pick(s) and a lesser player. We can then use the MLE to get one or two guys who are more complete players.
Miggs
Well-Known Member
We’d have Mike, Donnie or Bogey who could sub early and play with the second unit. Probably Bojan.
It’s also important to remember that that bench was an absolute mess and the Jazz didn’t have Conley when it happened and were trying to figure out that whole situation all year.
I think there’s merit to your point and I would also like to keep Clarkson but I just don’t think the Jazz are as vulnerable now as they were then (especially since they were so thin and trying to integrate so many new pieces).
homeytennis
Well-Known Member
If Clarkson is traded for picks, someone would have to pick up his scoring. I assume it would not be Matty Ice. Eliza Huge, our two Baylor rookies and Malik Newman could audition in SL. Newman averaged about 15 ppg playing in Israel and Turkey and shot a decent percentage. Jarrell Martin could audition for the front court. First round pick of Memphis and he had a decent year in Australia as well.
I think trading Royce for Nance unplugs one hole to fill another. We need more defensive players, trading one for another isn’t going to do much.
The reason why I think it’s most logical to move Bogey is 1) he makes way more than Ingles/O’Neale/Clarkson and 2) his skill set is duplicated by so many other players on this roster.
Over the past two seasons the Jazz have struggled when everyone is healthy because we have one too many scorers/ball handlers. In theory you could never get enough, but someone always gets their touches/shots squeezed and end up being a standstill shooter who doesn’t give effort because they haven’t touched the ball in awhile.
It’s either Bogey or Clarkson for me. Not interested in trading O’Neale or Ingles unless it’s a significant upgrade.
The reason why I think it’s most logical to move Bogey is 1) he makes way more than Ingles/O’Neale/Clarkson and 2) his skill set is duplicated by so many other players on this roster.
Over the past two seasons the Jazz have struggled when everyone is healthy because we have one too many scorers/ball handlers. In theory you could never get enough, but someone always gets their touches/shots squeezed and end up being a standstill shooter who doesn’t give effort because they haven’t touched the ball in awhile.
It’s either Bogey or Clarkson for me. Not interested in trading O’Neale or Ingles unless it’s a significant upgrade.
campaignist
Well-Known Member
It might be ok…except when Conley is out. That leaves your scorers as Mitch and Bogie. If they’re all healthy, it’s unlikely any of them come off the bench. JC serves that role perfectly. (To be fair, if you trade Bogie then you lose probably our best shooter.)
I dunno, I think it’s really just personal preference between the two, I just think JC would be harder to replace.
I think it's close enough that either player could be more valuable depending on the team context, but I'm low on Bogey. His metrics have always been low and I can't unsee the massive flaws in his game. His shooting and transition play is great, but I think he is the type of player to get overrated.
Nance obviously can't heat up and change a game in the same Bogey can, but he's really skilled and is a physical presence. I would love to see him on a good team. I think he does a lot of random stuff for CLE because they are awful, but if you streamline his game he can be really good. Doing the random **** has helped him develop some nice skills.
I feel like almost with everything Bogey does, it can be provided from someone else on the roster. Nance, on the other hand, would really unlock some different looks like you said.
Jazz aren't trading Clarkson.
I get what you're saying and I don't necessarily disagree. I just want to point out that it's probably easier finding a respectable 3&D wing than it is to find a respectable 3&D big. In other words; you might be able to have some version of both if you can grab the 3&D big because the Jazz are already hunting another 3&D wing (and they need to be able to assure them a role and minutes, BTW).
I think people are starting to really take what the Jazz were able to do offensively last year for granted. You get rid of Bogey and that's a fundamentally different attack on offense. You don't just go out and find players of Bogey's complexion off the scrap heap, and I don't know what to tell you if you see a poor-man's Bojan in Niang.
Royce is so important because he does big-man things that we need because we can't find a big that can space the floor and can play defense at the same time. It's not quite that simple but it's more simple than suggesting that we'll just up and replace a great off-ball scorer at 6' 8" that can exploit mismatches in the post and can also can pull-up 3s if he's not guarded. Or that we'll just up and drop the dude that has been the glue of the team for the past 5 years and everything will just keep working.
Of all of the players, Clarkson and Royce are the least special, and I wouldn't swap them out for something unless the incoming piece was a rarer type than they are. Nance seems to fit that bill.
The Jazz have been wandering the desert hoping a player like Nance falls out of the sky. It's time to make a sacrifice to bring the rain.
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NAOS
Well-Known Member
If you knew you could nab Batum or Gay (as long as you opened up some playing time), then you definitely trade Bogie. Outside of that scenario, I’m really not sure at this point. I was more open to trading him during the draft for a high-motor defender on the wing.
Cam Reddish is an interesting idea. Not sure what the moving pieces would need to be.
I’d also keep my eye on Sumner in Indy. If he somehow slips out of favor during the regime change over there, then you swoop in.
Cam Reddish is an interesting idea. Not sure what the moving pieces would need to be.
I’d also keep my eye on Sumner in Indy. If he somehow slips out of favor during the regime change over there, then you swoop in.