Jazz to actively pursue Paul Millsap this offseason, per Spencer Checketts

[NUMBERICA]

But that's a big IF! Utah can't even talk to Millsap before July 1st. So right now Checketts is saying there's a unilateral interest in Millsap returning to Utah. Jazz have no way of knowing if the attraction is mutual. What is Plan B? Gobert's goal is to make the playoffs. So we give him Booker and a rookie (Porzingis) to man the 4 if Millsap doesn't want to accept a paycut to return to Utah?

Who said anything about a paycut? We don't know anything about what will be on table for him, and I'm somehow skeptical that Atlanta rolls out the 5-year max for him. And actually, I'm not even sure if he's eligible for one of those since they don't own his Bird Rights and I'm not as good with CBA matters as I once was (and am indisposed at the moment).

 

[stitches]

Millsap's advanced defensive stats are skewed by the way Atlanta is playing defensively as a team(for example James Harden's defensive win shares are about the same as Millsap's, the fact that those teams use specific defensive schemes that inflate numbers for players, doesn't mean that those players are top 10 defenders in the league). When you look at his defensive shot charts things get a bit more clear. He's pretty bad when defending opponent's shots, allows 52% eFG, which is horrible for a player who defends PFs. For example, Trevor Booker allows 46% eFG, even if he doesn't have the counting stats and advanced stats.

 

[fishonjazz]

But that's a big IF! Utah can't even talk to Millsap before July 1st. So right now Checketts is saying there's a unilateral interest in Millsap returning to Utah. Jazz have no way of knowing if the attraction is mutual. What is Plan B? Gobert's goal is to make the playoffs. So we give him Booker and a rookie (Porzingis) to man the 4 if Millsap doesn't want to accept a paycut to return to Utah?

I will be clear. If the jazz don't get millsap (or some other 4 of similar quality) then I would not consider favors for the #4 pick.

Losing favors and only replacing him with Booker or a raw rookie would be going backwards.
I want to make the playoffs next year. (And I think we will too)

 

[Stifle Tower]

I will be clear. If the jazz don't get millsap (or some other 4 of similar quality) then I would not consider favors for the #4 pick.

Losing favors and only replacing him with Booker or a raw rookie would be going backwards.
I want to make the playoffs next year. (And I think we will too)

Numberica got me thinking and I spent WAY too much time reading Coon's FAQ site. If the Jazz really want to get EITHER Millsap or Carroll, I think there's a way (I made a separate thread). Those 2-yr deals may come back to bite Atlanta in the butt as they only give early-Bird rights to Atlanta. DMC EXPLODING as a player may prevent the Hawks from keeping both of them.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Our incredible team defense at the end of last year was due to a combination of things, two of those being the players buy in and effort with increased skill levels of execution, and our good defensive players length.

Favors has good length for a 4.

Millsap does not have good length for a 4. While he is a savvy player, and does some good things offensively, he has some limitations defensively.
Don't get me wrong, he is adequate but if Favors continues to improve offensively he would be an integral part of our team.
I already value the excellent defense as slightly more important than offense at the moment.

I had quite a bit of fun watching this team hold other teams to low point totals. I don't want to have a lesser defensive player at any position, because that will then require other positions into poor defensive positioning and situations, which will decrease our team defense more than just one players lack vs another.

Long story short, I say definitely keep Favors over Millsap.
If Millsap could come on as a 3rd big and battle for the 6th man spot with Burks/Hood that would be awesome so we don't have a letdown with our bench... but not going to happen.

I know I'm ignoring the other players talked about in the scenarios... but I can only deal with so many what ifs. Taking some unproven draft pick as part of the deal is not a risk I think our team should take at this time, when we know what we have in Favors, and it is good.

 

[gregbroncs]

Wow. I can't believe anybody still believes Millsap is better than Favors. He's not, and it's really not all that close. Offensively Millsap is maybe slightly better. Defensively Favors is better by a long, long ways.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Wow. I can't believe anybody still believes Millsap is better than Favors. He's not, and it's really not all that close. Offensively Millsap is maybe slightly better. Defensively Favors is better by a long, long ways.

And Favors is getting better at a rapid rate. Milsap is not going to improve much after 30.

If this team needed Favors to develop a 3 point shot he could and would. Favors has a great shooting stroke. That is not what the team has had him working on because he is needed inside since Gobert is not an offensive threat with the ball in his hands. Its important for Gobert to develop a mid range shot so that when Favors goes to work down low or is in a pick and roll Gobert can space the floor and not have Favors doubled. Favors (or another pf) does not need to space the floor out more than he does right now since Gobert is not going to work down low and when Gobert is in the pick and roll Favors is already a decent enough mid range shooter to force a defender to stay on him. Maybe the coaching staff will want him to stretch his shot to the 3 point line while gobert gets better offensively but it was not needed last season.

 

[Hotdog]

Wow. I can't believe anybody still believes Millsap is better than Favors. He's not, and it's really not all that close. Offensively Millsap is maybe slightly better. Defensively Favors is better by a long, long ways.

Haha.

Agree 100%

Can't believe this is even a conversation still.

 

[Hotdog]

I will be clear. If the jazz don't get millsap (or some other 4 of similar quality) then I would not consider favors for the #4 pick.

Losing favors and only replacing him with Booker or a raw rookie would be going backwards.
I want to make the playoffs next year. (And I think we will too)

Why would you consider trading Favors at all?


All this talk about trading Favors this offseason is going to go down as one of the stupidest conversations ever gone down on this site.

Alot of it is to trade up to get Porzingis. Good grief! This is the worst idea I have ever heard.


Ya, let's get rid of our excellent power forward who can play both ways, is still young, and we have been investing time in and developing forever, and are the verge of great success, all for a chance at a player that doesn't even project to be better than Favors, could flat out bust, and WILL take 4+ years to develop as it does with most big guys. All the while risking all sorts of chemistry issues, and player wantingness to even be here (Hayward), and risking missing the opportunity to take that next step.

It's so wrong on so many levels. I could go on forever

Worst idea ever.

 

[Hotdog]

Also, I'm not sure signing Millsap to a big deal is the right move, but Millsap > Favors easily.

No way.

I love Millsap as much as the person, but he just isn't better player to have on our team than Favors. Size matters.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Favors >>> Milsap on defense

On offense they are different players but I think they are equal. Favors is much better at slashing and finishing, milsap has better ball handling skills. Both are decent mid range jumpers. They basically scored the same amount of points on the same amount of shots. Favors shot a better percentage but Milsap hit threes to make up for it. I think next year Favors will be better offensively than Milsap.

 

[fishonjazz]

Why would you consider trading Favors at all?

So if we could swap favors for lebron or curry or the brow you would not consider it huh?
Interesting

 

[NUMBERICA]

Wow. I can't believe anybody still believes Millsap is better than Favors. He's not, and it's really not all that close. Offensively Millsap is maybe slightly better. Defensively Favors is better by a long, long ways.

Coming from a long time Millsap hater such as yourself, this post really means a lot.

 

[Hotdog]

So if we could swap favors for lebron or curry or the brow you would not consider it huh?
Interesting

Cmon really?

That isn't what we are talking about. And we won't be talking about that because it isn't going to happen.

Of course I'd trade him for those guys.

 

[addictionary]

Yeah that whole lebron going back to Cleveland thing seems to be a total fail.

So you are suggesting that Paul Millsap will make Bron effect on the Jazz?


I just think that players get traded for a reason and most of the time these reasons take the playing hype away from them. The 2nd Spring of remarriage is not usually what they expect. Millsap is a great player. But the last time I saw him, he was not happy in Utah. So I do not think it will work. It usually does not on 2nds.

I also have my own thoughts about Lebron James' returning to Cleveland. Part of me wants the Cavs to win this year. Not only this year but for so long because they've failed to do so and they are a well upset team. I was so excited when Lebron had published his famous "Return" letter. I was all over the things that franchise are doing. But suddenly, they've decided that trading Wiggins for instant success was the better idea. Maybe they have their reasons to do that, but it took all the excitement away from me. All of the dreams I've dreamt about a not-even-considered-old Lebron mentoring Wiggins as a historic experiment were destroyed with one trade. And they did not even give it a chance!


So there is that. I still will be happy for the Cavs if they win it. But this does not prove anything about the entire concept of 2nd marriages because Lebron James is not the kind of player you find every corner on the street.

 

[addictionary]

Cmon really?

That isn't what we are talking about. And we won't be talking about that because it isn't going to happen.

Of course I'd trade him for those guys.

Your avatar fools me into seeing you as the former poster called Cyrone Torbin.

 

[TheStormofWar]

As much as I love Paul, Favors makes Millsap very redundant. The only we go after Millsap is if we trade Favors, and I really don't see that happening.

 

[zman1527]

This discussion should not be Favs vs Sap as I have not heard that that is the plan. The discussion ought to be does Sap fit our needs with this team and will he fit in. Color me dubious, as he must start and the only option seems to be SF and he is not a SF. If it DID come to pass, I have enough faith and trust in DL and QS that they know what they are doing.

 

[charcoalt]

This discussion should not be Favs vs Sap as I have not heard that that is the plan. The discussion ought to be does Sap fit our needs with this team and will he fit in. Color me dubious, as he must start and the only option seems to be SF and he is not a SF. If it DID come to pass, I have enough faith and trust in DL and QS that they know what they are doing.

Agreed. The only way this makes sense is if #1: The Jazz think Sap can be our starting small forward: Exum, Hayward, Milsap, Favors, Gobert starting 5. Or #2, if an all-star Sap would buy into being the main focus for the second unit consisting of Burke, Burks, Hood, Milsap and a Center.

But who knows, maybe the rumor got started by Jazz saying to Milsap that they would really love him back someday and turned from something that had general interest on both sides -- someday if the conditions were right -- to "this is being seriously discussed."

I know Spence is connected and I don't doubt that one of his contacts gave him the info, but I'm still waiting to have one of his inside source rumors actually turn into something.

 

[Jazz4ever]

Agreed. The only way this makes sense is if #1: The Jazz think Sap can be our starting small forward: Exum, Hayward, Milsap, Favors, Gobert starting 5. Or #2, if an all-star Sap would buy into being the main focus for the second unit consisting of Burke, Burks, Hood, Milsap and a Center.

But who knows, maybe the rumor got started by Jazz saying to Milsap that they would really love him back someday and turned from something that had general interest on both sides -- someday if the conditions were right -- to "this is being seriously discussed."

I know Spence is connected and I don't doubt that one of his contacts gave him the info, but I'm still waiting to have one of his inside source rumors actually turn into something.

That lineup would put a ton of offensive pressure on Hayward to create. Currently Exum, Millsap, Favors, and Gobert cannot consistently create their own shot. It would also force Millsap to the three point line almost 100% of the time to create enough floor spacing, and at just 35% not sure you want him their all the time.