KOC is a *****
- Thread starter write4u
- Start date
Chad Feldheimer
Well-Known Member
Seriously if you worked for a Nissan Dealer and your boss said go ahead and see what Ford or Toyota will offer you and we will consider matching if it make sense. How is that unethical?
vslice02
Well-Known Member
Let's say KOC made Wes a 4 yr $16-18 million offer on July 1st. Wes wouldn't have accepted it July 2nd, his agent would have waited to get another offer to leverage it against, which wouldn't have happened until after the LeBron situation sorted itself out. So Portland still draws up their 5 yrs $34 million offer sheet with over $9 million coming to him immediately. How does this scenario play out any differently?
Well, a year from now, our lottery pick Hayward had better be starting, pushing Matthews to the back-up role. Maybe Matthews isn't all that, and we don't need to lock him up for four years.
Chad Feldheimer
Well-Known Member
Not to mention it ties the Jazz's hands to be able to offer that money to other players who are available.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
Best jazzfanz quote ever, although Michael Scott's "Cut off their nose to Spider-Face" was better.
Why weren't you on this message board a few weeks/months ago making threads about KOC locking up Matthews? It's because you, along with everybody else, didn't see Portland making an outrageous offer to Wes. It's easy for you to come on and blame KOC for not doing something in hindsight.
Chad Feldheimer
Well-Known Member
They didn't almost lose Millsap. They had first right to match any offer. KOC is smart enough to know that team who want RFAs try to structure the deals in their favor. I don't think he was shocked by anything that happened last year nor this year.
Scorpjazz
Well-Known Member
Let me be nice and just say, Shut Up man.
You are a hater through and through. When the Jazz make moves to better the team, and THEY HAVE, you must make **** up and bitch about it. You are actually trying to play the integrity card here? Amusing, to say the least.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
This will be totally lost on write, and many people.
Write4u is laughing all the way to the bank.
G-O-A-T
Member
I agree with write4u. Tendering a minimum contract to Matthews was a major ****-up on KOC's part. He should have learned from last season that you shouldn't just rely on the "market value" game when dealing with a solid free agent. Sure, Matthews said that he wasn't going to give a hometown discount and wanted to take care of his family, but what else was he supposed to say??? He wanted a fair deal and didn't want to act like he was totally sold on coming back to Utah... it's called negotiating.
It's KOC's job to gauge a players interest in staying and what their market value might be. If he had done a competent job in either fashion, he would have known that tendering a $4-5 million per year contract may have been enough to get a commitment.
I mean, what's the worst that could have happened if the Jazz offered a 5 year $20 million contract? He signs it and finds out no one else would have offered more than $3 million per year? (Jazz get burned for a total of $5 million... now compare AK!) Or, he turns it down to play the market... just like he did, and gets the mid-level exception. Except, if he had the "fair" contract to compare against the mid level, there might be a chance he took less money. Highly doubtful, but from reading his comments, it sounded like he really wanted to play in Utah and was very disappointing that things didn't turn out like he expected.
Hopefully KOC learns from this experience and stops tendering minimum contracts out to good RFA's. Not only is it insulting to the players, it also might cost you a great player
It's KOC's job to gauge a players interest in staying and what their market value might be. If he had done a competent job in either fashion, he would have known that tendering a $4-5 million per year contract may have been enough to get a commitment.
I mean, what's the worst that could have happened if the Jazz offered a 5 year $20 million contract? He signs it and finds out no one else would have offered more than $3 million per year? (Jazz get burned for a total of $5 million... now compare AK!) Or, he turns it down to play the market... just like he did, and gets the mid-level exception. Except, if he had the "fair" contract to compare against the mid level, there might be a chance he took less money. Highly doubtful, but from reading his comments, it sounded like he really wanted to play in Utah and was very disappointing that things didn't turn out like he expected.
Hopefully KOC learns from this experience and stops tendering minimum contracts out to good RFA's. Not only is it insulting to the players, it also might cost you a great player
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Don't you get it? He never had any intention of offering that much. It's not like Portland's offer was slightly over what the Jazz would pay. It was INSANELY over what they would pay. A 5-10 mil difference in aggregate is something you suck up. More likely, KOC thought it was 20 million more than he wanted to pay.
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
Does anyone else think that write4u and Hopper are the same person?
Someone should start a thread to discuss it. A poll would be nice.
Someone should start a thread to discuss it. A poll would be nice.
For those pissing and moaning that the Jazz didn't make an offer, what offer do you thing Wesley would have taken without even looking at other teams? He even says that if the Jazz would have made an offer it would be fair and he might have taken it.
This to me screams that regardless of what Utah offered he and his agent would have run to every team in the league and said, "This is what Utah is offering me. Can you do better?"
No way he would have re-upped with Utah until he was shot down by every team in the league.
Utah would have been stupid to tender an offer because it would give Wes' camp bargaining power. As it happens Porty was dumb enough to offer way more than what he was worth. The Jazz dodged a bullet on this one.
Good luck Wesley. Don't let the door hit you on the *** on the way out. Enjoy the pine. Your *** is going to see a lot of it.
It was reported that no team could offer more than the MLE. But there was nothing about an offer until Portland. And as Matthews said, the Jazz never made an offer, and it was reported by Siler that they told him they would let the market dictate his value. And just as with Millsap, Portland made an exhorbitant offer. No one can deny that they are overpaying Matthews. My beef is that he fit well with the Jazz and that there's a good chance he will be worth more in the future. I'm also pissed because I think it's pretty evident they could've gotten him for less than what Portland offered if they had a discussion. But they never discussed it; they said let the market dictate. So we have Bell now, which is a good consolation and will probably help us more next year. But we still need another guard and if we matched Matthews, we probably would not have been able to get a good one.
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
Write4u wrote
This works both ways? Where's the evidence THEY WEREN'T negotiating? I think Wes' own words prove that there were negotiations going on, there was just never a formal offer. If the Jazz had refused to even talk with Matthew's agent on the matter, he wouldn't be complaining about never getting an offer, he'd be saying "The Jazz wouldn't even answer our phone calls". Obviously, this isn't the case.
If you don't think that KOC and Matthew's agent didn't have discussions about the type of deal Matthews was seeking, your head is in the sand big time.
It seems like being a Jazz fan takes a lot of joy out of you. The good news is, there's plenty of other NBA teams to choose from with "better" front offices than Utah. Perhaps you'd be happier sending your loyalties to one of 'em.....
This works both ways? Where's the evidence THEY WEREN'T negotiating? I think Wes' own words prove that there were negotiations going on, there was just never a formal offer. If the Jazz had refused to even talk with Matthew's agent on the matter, he wouldn't be complaining about never getting an offer, he'd be saying "The Jazz wouldn't even answer our phone calls". Obviously, this isn't the case.
If you don't think that KOC and Matthew's agent didn't have discussions about the type of deal Matthews was seeking, your head is in the sand big time.
It seems like being a Jazz fan takes a lot of joy out of you. The good news is, there's plenty of other NBA teams to choose from with "better" front offices than Utah. Perhaps you'd be happier sending your loyalties to one of 'em.....