Longest Thread Ever
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almost as good as a resurrection. . . .
I know I'm using risky rhetoric, given the JF culture, but Trout's no about so it might be alright.
Vernadsky. . . . toyed with the notion, now I'm ready to define it.
https://www-ssg.sr.unh.edu/preceptorial/Summaries_2004/Vernadsky_Pap_ITru.html
https://www-ssg.sr.unh.edu/preceptorial/Summaries_2004/Vernadsky_Pap_ITru.html
addictionary
Well-Known Member
Are you ****ing jesting me?!?
I always read your brain splatter.
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A thoughtful reading, re-reading and later review and re-reading is actually necessary to get the nuance of the ideas of Vernadsky.
He did his work under Soviet regime political imperatives, but amazingly, he actually posited the foundational principles of liberty, free markets, and individual choice essential to American constitutional recognition of human rights. . . or even the rights of other living things.
What is the "Life Force" that Vernadsky saw as an elemental force of nature inherent in the Universe?
He did his work under Soviet regime political imperatives, but amazingly, he actually posited the foundational principles of liberty, free markets, and individual choice essential to American constitutional recognition of human rights. . . or even the rights of other living things.
What is the "Life Force" that Vernadsky saw as an elemental force of nature inherent in the Universe?
Well, every now and then my grey matter twinkles a bit, having absorbed some light radiation from somewhere out there in the Universe. . . .and I can't help it. . . . I process it through a series of internal conversions and re-emit it as a JF post.
The "Life Force" Vernadsky demonstrated in various experiments with stuff like rocks and roots, is sometimes described as "Consciousness" I question the appropriateness of that label as well. Could it be resolved as "Choice"?
The difference between the living and the non-living is "Choice", the power to commit a volitional action. Awareness, or consciousness, is a "choice". Living things have the power to ignore as well as to recognize circumstances, or even ideas, or in general to form a unique conception of the Universe or any particular subdivision of it.
The contrary notion, which has been the dominant public "reality" of the past 180 years, say since about 1850 anyway, is the Newtonian mechanical universe, a universe composed of inelastic particles pursuing some natural path of development purely on the realities of Newtonian physics.
Vernadsky, in effect, contested Newton's laws by adding a new theoretical force to the physics, his "Life Force". His idea was a bit forced, reflecting the quaint aspects of the science of his time, and he envisioned light, or radiation, conveying the Life Force to the fertile fields of pliable material reality where Life can take hold. . ..
But if we include "Life", or "consciousness" in the "theory of everything", in Quantum Mechanical terms, we can actually formulate a mathematical relation that is universal, and inherent in all matter in a manner comparable to inertia. . . . a potential energy as well as a kinetic energy. . . .
Vernadsky, in effect, contested Newton's laws by adding a new theoretical force to the physics, his "Life Force". His idea was a bit forced, reflecting the quaint aspects of the science of his time, and he envisioned light, or radiation, conveying the Life Force to the fertile fields of pliable material reality where Life can take hold. . ..
But if we include "Life", or "consciousness" in the "theory of everything", in Quantum Mechanical terms, we can actually formulate a mathematical relation that is universal, and inherent in all matter in a manner comparable to inertia. . . . a potential energy as well as a kinetic energy. . . .
Evolution, for example, under this paradigm, is transformed from the limitations of random events congealing along favorable pathways, into a sort of intended sequence favored by a conscious natural force favoring "Life".
Not to say, btw, that the Earth or the Universe happened in a few thousand years, or days. .. .. but that there is an elemental reality to Will, to choice, to consciousness or perception.
Given this theory of "Life" being intertwined with "Will" or choice, and intelligence or perception. . . Consciousness. . . .with a deterministic penchant for procreation or propagation of living things. . . .
I'd say it looks like the current fashion of human thought is an aberration, an unnatural or dysfunctional phenomenon. We think the earth over-populated, resource-depleted, and savaged by environmental impacts of industry and modern life. . . . the whole Agenda 21/Gaia world management plethora of panics. . . .
when the long trend of the "Life Force" would just go forward with humans using technology to expand the biosphere and transplant it first to nearby planets and thence to neighboring solar systems. . ..we would naturally propagate all life forms in vintage Noah's Ark voyages across space.
Curiously, this philosophy would mean that preservation of displaced species is a very high priority because there are millions of Earths "out there" and evey one needs all kinds of Life, and we are the caretakers, the guardians of "Life".
I'd say it looks like the current fashion of human thought is an aberration, an unnatural or dysfunctional phenomenon. We think the earth over-populated, resource-depleted, and savaged by environmental impacts of industry and modern life. . . . the whole Agenda 21/Gaia world management plethora of panics. . . .
when the long trend of the "Life Force" would just go forward with humans using technology to expand the biosphere and transplant it first to nearby planets and thence to neighboring solar systems. . ..we would naturally propagate all life forms in vintage Noah's Ark voyages across space.
Curiously, this philosophy would mean that preservation of displaced species is a very high priority because there are millions of Earths "out there" and evey one needs all kinds of Life, and we are the caretakers, the guardians of "Life".
addictionary
Well-Known Member
Why would you take this out of the assumption of Will being a discriminator of the living and non living? Because when you materialize consciousness and will, you open the path to acknowledge rocks as beings that just might have their own kind of consciousness. Are you suggesting that this is impossible because rocks do not choose to resist to the outer facts and alter their choices like us living do? Wait until the next geological master plan of the Earth.
Don't you think that the laughable Agenda 21's foresights can act faster than humanity's technology advancement acceleration? Has this become a race between the Earth and technology about who will get knocked out first?
What makes you think so? Maybe we have caretakers of our own and we are the ones that are propagated from somewhere else. What makes you think we are the originals with so much uncertainty on the table.
Vernadsky attributed characteristics of "Life" to rocks and roots, and theorized a universal "Life-Force", which he worked into the Marxist theories of economics and social progress in s similar deterministic fashion. "The Force" is there, therefore, the final victory is assured, that sort of thing. . . . that's why Evolution happens, and so forth.
If you consider the implications of "Will" or "Consciousness" or "Choice" being involved, a certain fixed result may or may not be the result. We could choose to Abort the planet/universe/whatever in that case. Or we could choose to have a world/universe with competitive decision-making rather than central planning.
I don't attribute all things to the same level of choice. I can decide to throw a rock, but a rock can't decide to throw me.
The problem I see with ideas like Agenda 21 and other more or less central or universal plans is that they lose the advantages of competitive choices which allow people to see what works best for their particular ideas of "good". We lose diversity and therefore distributed risks in facing unforeseen challenges.
Any religious person more or less believes in some kind of "Caretaker", but a more "modern" version of religion, like LDS Mormonism, can place mankind in a solid position of stewardship rather than merely a fatalistic world view. Mormons are, imo, great models of the New World Order with a culture that vests tremendous authority in leadership, and places great stress on compliance. Nothwithstanding old doctrinal themes like "agency" and freedom of choice.
If you believe as Jesus taught, which imo places the personal human conscience in the highest aspect, personal responsibility and individual decisions are the things that make us "like God" in most respects, and establishes the individual as the seat of authority on most choices.
Siro might maintain that machines or AI can be made to make autonomous decisions as well, but given the human choice to cross that threshold and construct AI devices, we are still the primary decision makers, however we may choose to distribute that power.
Anyway, I am toying with the idea that intelligence/choice/ will is what discriminates the living from the non-living or establishes a meaningful gradient on the scales of "Life" which can be used to argue that, say, humans are more intelligent than cows.
Aside from developments arising from corporate issues like "shareholder value", which drive corporations towards irresponsible actions to achieve short-term profits, I think the use of technology with appropriate concerns for consequences and provisions for preserving the basic health of our planet can be an overall plus for "Life" both in quantitative and qualitative aspects, and across the expanse of future time.
So, no. We don't need to degrade our planet to achieve another goal. The problem with Agenda 21, imo, in regard to this aspect, is that it limits possible choices and issues a barrier to progress that we could otherwise imagine and construct, and apply locally on a trial basis. Which means we freeze our future.
So, no. We don't need to degrade our planet to achieve another goal. The problem with Agenda 21, imo, in regard to this aspect, is that it limits possible choices and issues a barrier to progress that we could otherwise imagine and construct, and apply locally on a trial basis. Which means we freeze our future.
addictionary
Well-Known Member
Competitiveness brings the leverage to the one with more power which in this case is the corporations that care about small term profits. I always believed that the world survives on the good people's shoulders so I should never stop trying to do the good thing even if I see only bad motivations around me. Just like this, environmentalism and NGO's ar the common sense and conscience of the humanity's social existence and it balances the **** to break lose if it was a matter of who would be more dominant in decision making competition.
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The problem with fascism, apart from the historical inhumanities, like the current fascist United States' corporate prison establishment that gives prison operators immense profits from government budgets while degrading the human inmates to sub-slave living conditions, is just that oligarchs don't make good decisions. Oligarchs, or people with "connections" define the basic mechanism of fascism. It's who you know, and the quid pro-quo of the "deal", that tips the scales in every decision.
Hillary Clinton. ... Bill Clinton. . . destroyed the democratic party already, the same way Trump is destroying the Republican Party in the US today. It's a fact that the Clintons, Trump, and the Bush league are all "players" for the oligarchs, and that Obama is their servile boot-licker. And that our media, and our "Hollywood" elites are all in the bag together.
What used to be good about America is now lost, a fiction of a largely imaginary past. Equal Protection under the laws meant oligarchs had to live by the same laws the rest of us do. That is gone now. Hillary, Obama, Trump, and the Bushes are above the reach of the law, enjoying the perks of "the arrogance of power" where they can openly defy the law, with no consequences. As long as they serve the relevant oligarchs well, they are untouchable.
I might have to admit that one good thing is coming out of the AGW/Climate Change politics. . .. innovation in solar power technology. It is rumored that the Rockefeller investment portfolio has been selling off oil interests and buying into solar technology. A lot of major corporations are getting on this boat. Some new solar chip innovations promise to make solar the outright winner in the competition for energy market share.stuff like high production efficiencies, the use of an aluminum/magnesium conductor replacing silver, broad-spectrum energy conversion, and improved battery designs are all coming together, with a huge subsidy from the government. . . .to create a knock-out punch against even natural gas generators. . . .even nuclear generators. . . .
In this case, the oligarchs got it right.
But the American way is equal protection under the laws, and equal opportunity for all. In this case, if you want to be equal, you need to invest wisely, maybe buying some shares along with the Rockefellers.