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Milsap is Gone

mhindy said:
True tanking rarely works because you only get one shot a year at an impact player. The Jazz have enough young pieces that they should be able to maximize their development and value, possibly moving some of them for other pieces down the road.

Much different situation than Sacramento.
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Sacramento can't move their young players?
 
GVC said:
Sacramento can't move their young players?
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Not really because they only have one desirable young player and even he has his issues. If you end up with players that are spaced out too much and are never able to play winning basketball, you're going to struggle.

More than anything, Sacramento made some pretty horrible decisions on role players that have really hurt them. Salmons, Thornton, and Travis Outlaw were/are all pretty bad.
 
To be fair though, I actually like Sacramento's recent moves. Vazquez/McLemore should be a nice backcourt and if Cousins can get his head on straight they have some potential in the next few years.
 
GVC said:
The point is:

1. Giving young guys minutes doesn't guarantee they'll develop into stars. It's entirely possible by the end of this coming season we've soured on most or all of our young guys, don't have a pick that'll turn into a franchise player AND are even less attractive to free agents.

2. Teams that dump all their vets and go young frequently have many years of total suckitude before climbing out of the basement (or being moved to another city...which might not be such a bad thing).


KOC has not done this before. KOC had his franchise players leave, handed the team over to a Hall of Fame coach and a team of mostly scrappy veterans, and had a load of cap space the following year, getting pretty lucky with Boozer and Memo.

That's not to say I don't agree with the strategy in general. However, aside from wanting a championship at some point, I value watching entertaining/competitive basketball. It's not all or nothing for me, and I suspect most fans of teams consistently at the bottom of the standings feel the same way.
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I don't think he necessarily got lucky with Boozer and Memo. Carlos was very highly regarded and was a FA target of a couple of teams. Memo had caught the attention of a few teams and Detroit wanted to keep him as a key sub, but couldn't match Utah's offer. Maybe we WILL discover Favors or Kanter or Burks aren't the players we had hoped for. But we need to find out. And if that happens, we have $31M in salaries coming off the books. We can THEN go after FA replacements. And if they DO turn out to be starting quality? Then we have the cap space to keep them. There are no guarantees in any draft; but 2014 is the deepest in recent history. If we had to pick a year to hopefully wind up in the mid-lottery, 2014 is definitely the time to do it. And if we end up in the playoffs? Well, it certainly won't be on the back of Jefferson and Biedrins. It would likely mean a couple of players (like Burke and Favors or Kanter) blew up and were performing at an all-star level. Either way (lottery or playoffs), we WIN.
 
dalamon said:
The Sacramento Kings haven't won 30 games since 2008. Don't see how this fits his description. Read his post again



Umm Jimmer? Thomas Robinson? I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

We know we have a great rotation player in Hayward, at the very least a solid rotation big in Favors, and a great prospect in Kanter. Burks is probably the only true unknown-- as his game from first to second season was pretty different (still not great).

Not to mention us now drafting a ROTY candidate.
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Agree. The Jazz have been very effective in the draft lately. Yes, there have been mistakes (Humphries and Snyder the most glaring examples). But KOC nabbed one of the only two decent prospects on the board when he took Hayward. Grabbed Enes, drafted Burks (at worst, a decent backup). And now Lindsey has followed suit by getting Burke. We aren't the Kings!
 
BabyPeterzz said:
Doesn't sound super excited about the Hawks if you ask me.

https://m.ajc.com/weblogs/atlanta-hawks/2013/jul/06/paul-millsap-excited-join-hawks/
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Disappointment is likely due to the money and length of contract. After last summer, and even some of the contracts that have been given out this year, I'm sure he expected 4/$40M to be the floor. His statement about it being hard to leave strikes me as crocodile tears; he sure didn't a problem signing the offer sheet with Portland and having his camp urge Utah NOT to match.
 
GVC said:
I'm not speaking in absolutes. I've stated that I'm excited to see what the young guys will do, and how this strategy will work out. This is not a new strategy though, and it seems to me going young/tanking rarely works out. FWIW, I like the trade, and the direction/strategy of the team for the most part.

Jefferson/Millsap are better than a lot of fans seem to think. Those who are confident that Kanter/Favors are already an upgrade could be in for a surprise this coming season (not sure where I'd place the odds of the new frontcourt being better than the old frontcourt within 3 years). I have little hope of Burks ever being more than a bench player. Hayward is a solid complementary wing player. Burke is an unknown. The Jazz are still a very long way from contention.

Also, vSlice's twitter account?
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A lot of good points here.

However, one needs to take into consideration the Jazz are a small market team (and inability to attract free agents). While tanking might not be the most effective overall strategy, it might be the only realistic one for the Jazz due to their disadvantage in free agency.

One needs to also take into consideration the Kings franchise. I don't think a team which hates the Kings (like the Lakers) could have screwed up that franchise worse than what the Kings' owners and GMs have done.

DeMarcus Cousins? Headcase.
Traded for Salmons? dude looked on empty in Chicago. Why get him?
Drafted the Jimmer? Why?
And overall managing of players and coaches. What the hell are they trying to do?

It's seriously like their management wanted to create thee worst product available so that they would lose fan support and easily move the team elsewhere.

So instead of looking at teams purposely trying to keep their payrolls low/move elsewhere/otherwise inept, perhaps we should limit the sample size to small market teams who aren't trying to move to Seattle? Teams like... Indy? Denver? OKC?

At least we see a direction for the Jazz. Once we fire Corbin and have a real coach in, the direction will be more clear. However, a team like the Kings still have no direction despite C-webb and co retiring/being traded like almost a decade ago.
 
dalamon said:
@JazzBasketball1

His tweets are reasonable, but he seems to be convinced that the Jazz didn't attempt to re-sign Millsap, which I strongly disagree with. I'm quite sick of the anti-Utah Jazz Front Office rhetoric that permeates twitter.
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I agree with him that they did not attempt to re-sign Millsap. I disagree with the idea it was the wrong decision.
 
GVC said:
Jefferson/Millsap are better than a lot of fans seem to think. Those who are confident that Kanter/Favors are already an upgrade could be in for a surprise this coming season (not sure where I'd place the odds of the new frontcourt being better than the old frontcourt within 3 years).
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And that is where you are seriously wrong. I think fans were willing to give them their due but also see their flaws. I think you are the one who has them over-rated. They were a tandem who could do a decent job scoring the ball, but they gave it all back and more on the other end. They were mediocrity defined and the team relying on them was doomed to mediocrity, such as making the PO as the 8th seed to be embarrassed or missing out entirely.

I also think we understand that nothing is proven about the youngs. But they show the potential, their draft status backs it up, to being much better than Sap-Big Al. They are bigger and more athletic. I think most of us are ready to roll that dice than face another dreary season with Al and Sap.
 
gregbroncs said:
I agree with him that they did not attempt to re-sign Millsap. I disagree with the idea it was the wrong decision.
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And I agree with your disagreement!
Biedrins actually makes perfect sense as the 3rd big.
1) He's a center, so Favors can remain at the 4 for 30+ mins.
2) We already have a 4 we can throw in as a sub (Evans)
4) Gobert is RAW. I'm not sure the Jazz should throw him out there just yet. Let him improve in practice, work with Malone and get some garbage time mins before putting him in the rotation.
5) Millsap would want to start. Even IF he agreed to come off the bench, Jazz would wonder if he'd give 100%.
6) Biedrins and Gobert <<<<<<<<<<< Millsap. We want the subs to lose us games, not have Millsap go off for 30 pts.!
 
The Thriller said:
A lot of good points here.

However, one needs to take into consideration the Jazz are a small market team (and inability to attract free agents). While tanking might not be the most effective overall strategy, it might be the only realistic one for the Jazz due to their disadvantage in free agency.

One needs to also take into consideration the Kings franchise. I don't think a team which hates the Kings (like the Lakers) could have screwed up that franchise worse than what the Kings' owners and GMs have done.

DeMarcus Cousins? Headcase.
Traded for Salmons? dude looked on empty in Chicago. Why get him?
Drafted the Jimmer? Why?
And overall managing of players and coaches. What the hell are they trying to do?

It's seriously like their management wanted to create thee worst product available so that they would lose fan support and easily move the team elsewhere.

So instead of looking at teams purposely trying to keep their payrolls low/move elsewhere/otherwise inept, perhaps we should limit the sample size to small market teams who aren't trying to move to Seattle? Teams like... Indy? Denver? OKC?

At least we see a direction for the Jazz. Once we fire Corbin and have a real coach in, the direction will be more clear. However, a team like the Kings still have no direction despite C-webb and co retiring/being traded like almost a decade ago.
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So why would people sign with Denver rather than Utah? From what I've heard the only difference about Denver is legal weed and more thugs.
 
With Carroll, Millsap, and Korver, Atlanta has taken the title of Jazz East from the Nets. Nets I think are Boston South with Joe Johnson, Garnett, and Pierce.
 
For sure gonna get boo'd I hope when he comes back to ESA. No dif than any other former jazzman.....he quit his last year even..BOOOOO
 
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