fishonjazz
Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
20-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
2025 Award Winner
Yup.
Another problem with the wheel system
NBA Tweaking the Lottery - how will it impact the Jazz?
- Thread starter The Midnight
- Start date
Another problem with the wheel system
There is little advantage to tanking for the first picks in a setup like 11% - 11% - 11% - 11% - 11% - 10% - 8% - 7% - 6% - 5% - 3% - 2% - 2% - 2%. Getting worse by 3 positions only nets you an increase of a 4% chance for the top pick. There might still be protection-based tanking, like the GSWs did a couple of years ago.
Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
There are some very good ideas in here.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Exactly.
I'd go one step further with this revision and not allow the same team to get a top-3 pick in successive seasons. Along with Cleveland, you have to address the Philadelphia Experiment. They're did absolutely nothing to field a competitive team last year and this season will be even worse. The player's association has to be upset Philly is spending zero FA dollars.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
You better believe it. A few players like Jabari were waffling. If New York, LA or Chicago had the top pick next season (vs Cleveland and Milwaukee), do you think Parker would have stayed in school? GUARANTEED.
And you better believe the shoe companies would ENCOURAGE (demand), that prospects like Parker and Wiggins stay in school so they can then go to the larger markets. Does Nike get more bang for the bucks by having Wiiggins play in New York or in Cleveland (sans Lebron, of course). Is Parker a better marketing prospect in LA or Milwaukee? On the other hand, not sure they care too much if the best pick in the draft is a Bennett.
Also, it would flow all the way through the top picks. If LA even has an 8-10 pick, does someone pull a Kobe and have their agent tell all teams not to draft that player because he'll ONLY go to that particular team.
The wheel idea is probably the worst proposal ever. Sure it has support by the larger market teams. It's a windfall for them to buy the best talent to get to the top and then be able to stay there by adding cheap, upper-level picks.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
I'd actually favor a system that hurts tankers and makes teams more willing to compete, even if they're bad. It's more or less a spin off of Mark Cuban's suggestion to adjust the lottery to discourage out-and-out tanking. He suggested making the worst three teams automatically pick at #4, #5 and #6, but I'd rather see their odds reduced to the same ones as the better lottery teams instead of just automatically slotting them at lower picks.
My solution would be to get rid of the current number combination system and put in a specific number of balls (based on what their records are) with the team's logos on them. The total number of balls that they start out with should be 62, distributed as follows. . .
#14, #13 and #1 all have one ball = 1.613%
#12 and #2 both have two balls = 3.226%
#11 and #3 both have three balls = 4.834%
#10 has four balls = 6.452%
#09 has five balls = 8.065%
#08 has six balls = 9.678%
#07 has seven balls = 11.290%
#06 has eight balls = 12.903%
#05 has nine balls = 14.517%
#04 has ten balls = 16.129%
This system gives teams a reward for trying to field the best team that they can and being somewhat competitive. It also doesn't hurt the worst teams that much by allowing them to get a top 6 pick regardless of how the lottery ends up. It's not a perfect system, but I think that it would be better than the one that is in place right now. It would discourage teams from outright tanking and create a battle for the 4th, 5th and 6th spots instead. If the bottom dwellers are competing to not suck on a nightly basis, it creates better basketball for the whole league.
Last edited:
green
Well-Known Member
I wonder if large markets are losing their pull to players. Durrant and LeBron have never been in a large market. LA can't get a FA. If Durrant stays in OKC and Love goes to a "small" market team (GE/Cle) then the NBA has changed. No more super teams, no more play in Milwaukee for 6 years, demand a trade to LA...
This is good. Also, if you are a #1 pick and you can go play on a Utah team with Stockton, Olajuwan and Grant Hill or a bad NY team, are you really going to stay in school one more year, give up millions on the front end of your deal and tens of millions on the back end?
Your arguments against the wheel system are not as applicable as you think. They sound nice, but don't really hold as much substance as you'd think.
This is good. Also, if you are a #1 pick and you can go play on a Utah team with Stockton, Olajuwan and Grant Hill or a bad NY team, are you really going to stay in school one more year, give up millions on the front end of your deal and tens of millions on the back end?
Your arguments against the wheel system are not as applicable as you think. They sound nice, but don't really hold as much substance as you'd think.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Playoff revenue v. a 1-2% chance at the #1 pick...
This scheme is so much better than the current ********; the marginal benefit of losing a few extra games is incredibly small. I suspect this would decrease tanking considerably.
Lebron and Durant don't need a large market anymore to really carry their brand. Big markets still have pull with players who aren't that big, but hope to be.
You're either really high, or you're simply trolling. If you really think the 76ers losing 26 games straight last year is good for the game or the NBA as a whole then you're really losing it. They were so awful to watch I stopped watching any team playing them on League Pass. Why bother watching when you already know the outcome???
You've got a point about the Knicks getting the #1 pick - but then you've gotta look at tweaking the cap again to create parity. Granted, these issues are related but you've got to solve each issue one by one. This new system together with a harder cap will likely create a more competitive NBA with lesser blatant tanking PLUS smaller market teams like CHA being able to acquire talent through the FA process as well simply because they have the cap space to do it (through good cap management).
Last edited:
wheel system will NEVER work. imagine if we have a first pick and james type of player decide to stay at school one more year to join the lakers next season. i will go and murder him.
Sent from the JazzFanz app
Sent from the JazzFanz app
Yah this.
jjscap
Well-Known Member
Adam Silver is the man. He had made it obvious late 2013 that the NBA would focus on tanking: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1274614
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
Hmmmmm.
I can see what QuinSnydersHair is saying.
How do you build a championship team if you are a small market team like Utah, with this new proposal? You can't purposely lose to gain stronger assets, you might have 10 straight years of not landing in a good spot of the lottery, or more, and you can't attract big time free agents. So what options do we have at that point? Then, it's based on a lot more luck for us. But still not really for big markets. They can just build teams through FA.
I think things need to change too, but I'm not sure how quickly we should want to get rid of the option to tank right now. After all, it's what we need as a team to have a good chance at winning a championship.
Sure, this is better for the NBA as a whole, but is it better for us?
I like tanking. Tanking can work (if you do it right)
I can see what QuinSnydersHair is saying.
How do you build a championship team if you are a small market team like Utah, with this new proposal? You can't purposely lose to gain stronger assets, you might have 10 straight years of not landing in a good spot of the lottery, or more, and you can't attract big time free agents. So what options do we have at that point? Then, it's based on a lot more luck for us. But still not really for big markets. They can just build teams through FA.
I think things need to change too, but I'm not sure how quickly we should want to get rid of the option to tank right now. After all, it's what we need as a team to have a good chance at winning a championship.
Sure, this is better for the NBA as a whole, but is it better for us?
I like tanking. Tanking can work (if you do it right)
With the new CBA and a harder cap (hard cap potentially coming?) it might not be as difficult to get good players through FA when money starts to dry up.
Take this year for example you have CHA being able to sign Stephenson when money starts to dry up around the league. Same goes with Trevor Booker - Knicks, Nets, Heat, Wiz, Wolves were reportedly interested in signing him, but Utah was able to offer more and got him. I was surprised Utah was able to grab him this year (albeit overpaying a little).
Moreover, with cap space becoming a more valued commodity now, teams that have preserved the cap (i.e., smaller market teams) can also use it to obtain players or additional draft picks from teams wanting to dump salaries to sign new FA's.
So with clever cap management and roster building, there are ways for smaller market teams to get good quality players which weren't available to them 4-5 years ago.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
I don't like any system where the worst team can theoretically get the 7th pick - no matter how small the odds are of that happening. I'd prefer a system like what I suggested. Simplified lottery with better odds going to the middling teams over the worst three and the teams barely out of the playoffs. Everybody still has a shot, and the lowest that teams 1, 2 and 3 can fall is 4, 5 or 6.
This past year, I bet that Milwaukee, Philly and Orlando would have played harder and tanked less on an organizational level if it meant that they'd have worse odds to get the top 3 picks than all of the teams behind them. Would have been a cluster of teams fighting for between 25 and 30 wins.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
This is all true, but the one sure-fire way to land a potential superstar is to draft him and hold his rights during his developmental stage.