Never Trump

[str8line]

I watched the entire thing.

Trump was a chump, with a goofy smile. While Hillary was calling him "dangerous", there was very little that seemed overboard. Did anyone put a clock on Hillary? She knew she could talk all she wanted.

At the end, the bit about "will you accept the results" was made out by the TV talking morans like he was saying he had his army outfitted to just take over if the election didn't run his way. Pretty stupid comments about how in history America's first election was the first peaceful transfer of power in history, by Cokie Roberts the self-styled historian who hasn't heard of Greece or Rome. Or a lot of American Indian tribes for that matter.

Most Trump leaners will walk away from this with absolute disgust for the moderator who like others before him joined in on Hillary's side, using prejudicial phrasing to load questions for Trump and debating against him without pretense of objectivity. He cut Trump out of his two minutes on every question, and let Hillary run three or four. And Hillary knew it was coming her way, and had her lines memorized.

People who watch TV and believe it are pretty much beyond reach anyway.

Trump said "we'll see" like anyone should. If there is any outright fraud, he will prosecute his case in Hillary's courts, just to show the American people he still cares about America. I think he is in this for the long run, even if he loses this election, he will do what he can towards resolution of criminal or scofflaw administrators and officials who are doing stuff a lot of Americans feel should no longer be tolerated without remonstrance. And kiddies, that big word means a civil objection made publicly, not a civil war.

People who make Trump out to be a tyrant just don't know that he cares about the good things America has been for so many hard working and honorable people who found their chance in America when they could not have had that chance anywhere else.

And what was wrong with all those nations and times past which led so many people to come to America? Governance by people like Hillary.

With things like massive insurance fraud and all of his other abuses he would be the perfect person for that. Good thing there are good people like yourself, babe, to remonstrate about all of this stuff for us kiddies.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...for-damage-few-remember/ar-AAjlkpj?li=BBnbcA1

 

[babe]

With things like massive insurance fraud and all of his other abuses he would be the perfect person for that. Good thing there are good people like yourself, babe, to remonstrate about all of this stuff for us kiddies.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...for-damage-few-remember/ar-AAjlkpj?li=BBnbcA1

If the insurance company paid the $17M without supporting documentation of the damage, that's their fault.

MSN has a reputation for saying anything they can imagine as long as it's gonna pave the way for Hillary to the Whitehouse, and no doubt will net much more than $17 M in quids for their quo.

I have no illusions about how Trump does business, I expect it to be tough on his creditors, competition, and anyone else with a nickel that can be shaken loose. But Hillary is actually a lot more corrupt, and sbe has been milking her quarter billion from influence peddling on the US public's expense.

yep, you folks look like "nitwits" alright just buying the party line. No doubt you wouldn't do that unless you have either been sorta mesmerized, brainwashed, or taken for fools because Hillary is not going to look out for you unless you are important directly to her immediate goals.

Here you sit, quibbling about Trump's manners and methods, supporting the most outrageous criminal conduct and public failures in our entire history.

but Hell, if you won't take it from Mark Levin, you sure as hell won't listen to me.

 

[str8line]

If the insurance company paid the $17M without supporting documentation of the damage, that's their fault.

MSN has a reputation for saying anything they can imagine as long as it's gonna pave the way for Hillary to the Whitehouse, and no doubt will net much more than $17 M in quids for their quo.

I have no illusions about how Trump does business, I expect it to be tough on his creditors, competition, and anyone else with a nickel that can be shaken loose. But Hillary is actually a lot more corrupt, and sbe has been milking her quarter billion from influence peddling on the US public's expense.

yep, you folks look like "nitwits" alright just buying the party line. No doubt you wouldn't do that unless you have either been sorta mesmerized, brainwashed, or taken for fools because Hillary is not going to look out for you unless you are important directly to her immediate goals.

Here you sit, quibbling about Trump's manners and methods, supporting the most outrageous criminal conduct and public failures in our entire history.

but Hell, if you won't take it from Mark Levin, you sure as hell won't listen to me.

I don't support Hillary and I've never bought any party line. This is about Trump. Trump is a nut job. Hillary is corrupt, but so is Trump. And I'll take corrupt over crazy any day of the week.

 

[babe]

I don't support Hillary and I've never bought any party line. This is about Trump. Trump is a nut job. Hillary is corrupt, but so is Trump. And I'll take corrupt over crazy any day of the week.

Well, I see this point. I thought at the outset that Trump was just Hillary's Perot, out to earn some quid for participating in the dicing and slicing of the Republican Party.

Who knows the man's heart, really, but I've come to take it that Trump has changed some stuff about himself, and now sees this as a need to redirect the national path. Maybe just because taking America down to the general conditions worldwide is bad for business, but I think he loves the idea of America being above all that, a place of opportunity and prosperity. I don't see him as a fascist nearly to the extent of the Clintons, or nearly so obsessed with power. I think he sees the US Constitution as a good thing, and a defined American set of interests as better.

Anyone who can articulate the outrage of American voters against shear corruption ought to win this Election. I vote for Trump.

 

[Hotdog]

I don't support Hillary and I've never bought any party line. This is about Trump. Trump is a nut job. Hillary is corrupt, but so is Trump. And I'll take corrupt over crazy any day of the week.

Why would you take corrupt over crazy?

In this particular case its more of Trump is a dumb *** with a big ego. Nothing really more than that. Trump isnt the next Hitler. Its not even close.

Hillary is a neoliberal. She isnt a progressive at all. It makes no sense for anyone on the left to vote for her. She is basically the same as George Bush. She isnt for the middle class or little guy. She is also a warmonger. It basically going to be more of the same, but even worse. She'll give us more national debt, more rigged markets through corporatism, etc.

Everyone who votes for Hillary is going to regret it. Guaranteed

Vote Jill Stein if you actaully want to vote for a real progressive.

Vote Trump if you are tired of corrupt politics. The racism card being pushed by the main stream media is BS. You are a sucker if you fall for it.

 

[Boris]

Why would you take corrupt over crazy?

In this particular case its more of Trump is a dumb *** with a big ego. Nothing really more than that. Trump isnt the next Hitler. Its not even close.

Hillary is a neoliberal. She isnt a progressive at all. It makes no sense for anyone on the left to vote for her. She is basically the same as George Bush. She isnt for the middle class or little guy. She is also a warmonger. It basically going to be more of the same, but even worse. She'll give us more national debt, more rigged markets through corporatism, etc.

Everyone who votes for Hillary is going to regret it. Guaranteed

Vote Jill Stein if you actaully want to vote for a real progressive.

Vote Trump if you are tired of corrupt politics. The racism card being pushed by the main stream media is BS. You are a sucker if you fall for it.

It is funny how they believe Trump is any different than all these other politicians. He is cause he is not a politician. He is crass an tells it how it is while Hillary lies an then does whatever the hell she wants when the spotlight is turned off.

[MENTION=2298]Computer[/MENTION] do me a favour an start a thread about Hillary new emails of her trying to infiltrate religious organizations. If that does not frighten you to the core I do not know what Hitlary would be allowed to get away with. At least with Trump I know he will not suspend the bill of rights.

 

[fishonjazz]

Why would you take corrupt over crazy?

I took his post to say that both Hillary and trump are corrupt. Trump is corrupt AND crazy. Hillary is just corrupt.
So I thought he was trying to say that he would take a corrupt president over a president who is corrupt AND crazy.

Hillary is corrupt, but so is Trump. And I'll take corrupt over crazy any day of the week.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[gandalfe]

At least with Trump I know he will not suspend the bill of rights.

Except, of course, for the 1st and 8th amendments. Oh, plus the 14th, which isn't part of the Bill of Rights, but is still part of the constitution. And his fans who want to get rid of the 19th.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...-unconstitutional-freedom-liberty-khan-214139

 

[babe]

Except, of course, for the 1st and 8th amendments. Oh, plus the 14th, which isn't part of the Bill of Rights, but is still part of the constitution. And his fans who want to get rid of the 19th.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...-unconstitutional-freedom-liberty-khan-214139

you consider politico relevant to truth? It's pure propaganda dressed in every available pseudo-credible urban legend.

Trumps real weakness is big talk. But then he does some stuff, but only if plenty of people are gonna like it. He's learning about the Constitution, and already is the first national politicians to tell the people the truth about it. It does not authorize the Federal government to do everything, it leaves all that to the States. And far from being someone bent on making the Federal government his own little personal game to lord it over everyone, he's talking about nominating Supreme Court justices with a record for respecting the Constitution provisions, like the three separate branches with defined roles that hold the others in check.

So this is what strikes fear into the darkened hearts of people who believe government is supposed to be the solution to everything. He's gonna make the pound sand or work for change on the State level.

 

[gandalfe]

you consider politico relevant to truth? It's pure propaganda dressed in every available pseudo-credible urban legend.

Actually, no, I don't. Well, I mean, they obviously based it on his statements, but it was simply the first link I found that enumerated the things Trump has said he wants to do that are obviously unconstitutional.

Trumps real weakness is big talk. But then he does some stuff, but only if plenty of people are gonna like it. He's learning about the Constitution, and already is the first national politicians to tell the people the truth about it. It does not authorize the Federal government to do everything, it leaves all that to the States. And far from being someone bent on making the Federal government his own little personal game to lord it over everyone, he's talking about nominating Supreme Court justices with a record for respecting the Constitution provisions, like the three separate branches with defined roles that hold the others in check.

Call me crazy, but I would prefer someone who already has the vaguest idea of the what the constitution says before he gets in there. And, as far as not "making the Federal Government his own little personal game," well, his own statements belie that. He wants to loosen the libel laws just to make it easier for him to sue journalists who say mean things about him.

 

[LogGrad98]

Just out of morbid curiosity, what is the big deal with Trump's tax returns? And how does it compare to all the "birther" malarkey? I have friends that are VIOLENTLY opposed to Trump, at least a few who claim his failure to release his tax returns proves he is the anti-christ or something. Just trying to understand this angle because when I ask them what the deal is with it they foam at the mouth and cannot form coherent sentences due to overwhelming anger. Can someone enlighten me?

 

[Miggs]

Just out of morbid curiosity, what is the big deal with Trump's tax returns? And how does it compare to all the "birther" malarkey? I have friends that are VIOLENTLY opposed to Trump, at least a few who claim his failure to release his tax returns proves he is the anti-christ or something. Just trying to understand this angle because when I ask them what the deal is with it they foam at the mouth and cannot form coherent sentences due to overwhelming anger. Can someone enlighten me?

Trump's an epic moron and a disgrace but he has not supposedly paid income taxes in 18 years and ya know what, I'm okay with that. That's the system and he's legally using it to his advantage. Every single one of us would do the same.

 

[LogGrad98]

Trump's an epic moron and a disgrace but he has not supposedly paid income taxes in 18 years and ya know what, I'm okay with that. That's the system and he's legally using it to his advantage. Every single one of us would do the same.

That is my thought as well, word for word. And you are right, any of us would do the same. In fact I had a couple of years I paid no taxes since my mother was a tax examiner and told me the threshold they had for chasing down unpaid taxes (at the time) was $350, so anything less than that they just ignored because it cost them at least that much to go after the money. I was hoping someone who found this to be a big deal would enlighten me as to why it is a big deal.

 

[str8line]

Trump's an epic moron and a disgrace but he has not supposedly paid income taxes in 18 years and ya know what, I'm okay with that. That's the system and he's legally using it to his advantage. Every single one of us would do the same.

Perfect summation of Trump in two words... well done.

 

[♪alt13]

Trump's an epic moron and a disgrace but he has not supposedly paid income taxes in 18 years and ya know what, I'm okay with that. That's the system and he's legally using it to his advantage. Every single one of us would do the same.

That's not really the issue. We don't know for sure if he has or hasn't paid taxes. The New York Times speculated that he hasn't based on information from one of Trump's lawsuits in the nineties. There is no law stating that a candidate must release their returns but every candidate in the past 40 years be they Dem or Rep has. Voters want to know if you have been doing some shady ****, dealing with shady people, or if you are as generous as you claim to be. Americans are essentially voting for who gets to be king of the world for the next four years. For many people Trump's refusal to be transparent in this regard is a red flag.

 

[infection]

They think he's hiding something and not being forthcoming. What's interesting is he's said that as soon as his audit with the IRS is complete he'll release them. The same group that was targeting conservative groups. If the IRS doesn't see anything newsworthy, take your time on that audit. With him making that audit the condition of his release of those forms, you can bet your *** they'd be finishing that audit well before November 8th if it showed something damning.

 

[LogGrad98]

That's not really the issue. We don't know for sure if he has or hasn't paid taxes. The New York Times speculated that he hasn't based on information from one of Trump's lawsuits in the nineties. There is no law stating that a candidate must release their returns but every candidate in the past 40 years be they Dem or Rep has. Voters want to know if you have been doing some shady ****, dealing with shady people, or if you are as generous as you claim to be. Americans are essentially voting for who gets to be king of the world for the next four years. For many people Trump's refusal to be transparent in this regard is a red flag.

A reasonable reason I suppose. I think most all politicians are shady anyway, so I accept a given level of shadiness in our political leaders, since they all accept what amounts to bribe money from special interests and lobbyists and it is just commonly accepted and will really never go away. So I guess it doesn't bother me that much if he won't release his tax returns.

They think he's hiding something and not being forthcoming. What's interesting is he's said that as soon as his audit with the IRS is complete he'll release them. The same group that was targeting conservative groups. If the IRS doesn't see anything newsworthy, take your time on that audit. With him making that audit the condition of his release of those forms, you can bet your *** they'd be finishing that audit well before November 8th if it showed something damning.

I think waiting for the result of an audit is a reasonable reason to wait, looking at it from his point of view. If he released them then they changed after the audit (which they normally do, even if just nominally, and for someone with that level of money it will probably change a lot) then he will be accused of further shadiness when he "changes" his taxes even if it is fully legit due to the audit.


All in all I still don't get the hubbub, but that's ok. I'm still not voting for him.

 

[infection]

A reasonable reason I suppose. I think most all politicians are shady anyway, so I accept a given level of shadiness in our political leaders, since they all accept what amounts to bribe money from special interests and lobbyists and it is just commonly accepted and will really never go away. So I guess it doesn't bother me that much if he won't release his tax returns.



I think waiting for the result of an audit is a reasonable reason to wait, looking at it from his point of view. If he released them then they changed after the audit (which they normally do, even if just nominally, and for someone with that level of money it will probably change a lot) then he will be accused of further shadiness when he "changes" his taxes even if it is fully legit due to the audit.


All in all I still don't get the hubbub, but that's ok. I'm still not voting for him.

Perhaps, but my point is that he set a completed audit as the condition for release essentially puts it in the hands of the IRS who may have some skin in the game. He basically defers to them and gives them the upper hand and some leverage if they have incentive to drag their feet or not.

 

[str8line]

That's not really the issue. We don't know for sure if he has or hasn't paid taxes. The New York Times speculated that he hasn't based on information from one of Trump's lawsuits in the nineties. There is no law stating that a candidate must release their returns but every candidate in the past 40 years be they Dem or Rep has. Voters want to know if you have been doing some shady ****, dealing with shady people, or if you are as generous as you claim to be. Americans are essentially voting for who gets to be king of the world for the next four years. For many people Trump's refusal to be transparent in this regard is a red flag.

Speaking of which, just saw this long article regarding Trumps "philanthropy". The man has no shame.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...alls-short-of-his-words/ar-AAjAzpL?li=BBnbcA1

 

[♪alt13]

They think he's hiding something and not being forthcoming. What's interesting is he's said that as soon as his audit with the IRS is complete he'll release them. The same group that was targeting conservative groups. If the IRS doesn't see anything newsworthy, take your time on that audit. With him making that audit the condition of his release of those forms, you can bet your *** they'd be finishing that audit well before November 8th if it showed something damning.

1) That's a dumb reason not to disclose. These are forms that he (his accountant) filled out and handed over to the IRS. It's not like the IRS doesn't know what is in them.

2) Trump has been asked to supply proof that he is being audited, such as a letter from the IRS stating so. He will not even produce that.