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Obama might be the best President in 100 years.

The lie the republicans told was that Obama wasnt respected, or feared by our enemies.

Being out of the country for the majority of the time Obama was in office, I can tell you Obama was overall very well respected. The American brand became popular again with the flag being on a lot of clothing, and products. This really was noticeable around 2010 onward. Talking with people Ive met on my travels I always try to gauge their sense of how they view us. Obama was looked on very positively. I can tell you Trump is being made fun of on German radio, and people are nervous about his term. Tensions are high because of the things hes said about Germany, NATO, our bases here etc.

The republicans and right hated Obama, and most of it was jealously. They hated his popularity from the start. Thats why they made it there agenda to obstruct, and attack.
 
Revolution 9 said:
The lie the republicans told was that Obama wasnt respected, or feared by our enemies.

Being out of the country for the majority of the time Obama was in office, I can tell you Obama was overall very well respected. The American brand became popular again with the flag being on a lot of clothing, and products. This really was noticeable around 2010 onward. Talking with people Ive met on my travels I always try to gauge their sense of how they view us. Obama was looked on very positively. I can tell you Trump is being made fun of on German radio, and people are nervous about his term. Tensions are high because of the things hes said about Germany, NATO, our bases here etc.

The republicans and right hated Obama, and most of it was jealously. They hated his popularity from the start. Thats why they made it there agenda to obstruct, and attack.
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A lot of people might like the guy but the foreign policy has been a disaster with very few exceptions.
 
Revolution 9 said:
The lie the republicans told was that Obama wasnt respected, or feared by our enemies.

Being out of the country for the majority of the time Obama was in office, I can tell you Obama was overall very well respected. The American brand became popular again with the flag being on a lot of clothing, and products. This really was noticeable around 2010 onward. Talking with people Ive met on my travels I always try to gauge their sense of how they view us. Obama was looked on very positively. I can tell you Trump is being made fun of on German radio, and people are nervous about his term. Tensions are high because of the things hes said about Germany, NATO, our bases here etc.

The republicans and right hated Obama, and most of it was jealously. They hated his popularity from the start. Thats why they made it there agenda to obstruct, and attack.
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he was so well respected, that he opens his mouth and brexit might have swung breixt in the YAY territory!!!!!!!!


wake up man, he is well respected because people feared political correctness. whenever i would say obama kinda sucks. i would get racist slurs thrown at me!


so how could you trust someone saying ooh dear lord obama is the bestest ever most respected dude ever!!! is he syaing it cus he relaly thinks that or is afraid to get called a effing biggot!

his back of the line comment is literally what swung brexit. seriously the leftist where in power, not talking about government power, i am talking politcal correctness power!

those walls are crumbling.


or how about while people died in Brussels he was off to a baseball game and dancing, while Europe was under attack.
yes you where not here to hear all that! brussel france. good ridance in about24 hours he will be gone. but he wont be going gracefully like bush. no he will run his mouth, he will try and influence power and polital coirrectness.
he is setting up some POS institution to influence the future "leaders"

obama respected by the stupid uniformed masses. and the right was mostly silenced by political correctness.

if you censor people you think you get the truth. or do you hear what the censors like!!!!!
 
Stoked said:
And that has to do with Obama how? I don't recall me defending, or even mentioning, Bush.

So yes, disaster.
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I believe Bush's foreign policy was a disaster and cost thousands of American lives. That to me is a "disaster".
I brought up his name for context on what a "disaster" looks like. He is a shining example of that.

I work for the army overseas, and talk to soldiers daily. Getting out of Iraq saved untold number of American lives.

The battle for Iraq had to be fought by Iraqis with us playing a back up roll. That is exactly what is happening now.
They are clearly improving, and taking back their country. We have barely lost anyone since we played a supporting roll.
Not to mention saving billions by having a more limited presence there.
With the conflict in the middle east Obamas decisions have kept us out of harms way.
 
Revolution 9 said:
I believe Bush's foreign policy was a disaster and cost thousands of American lives. That to me is a "disaster".
I brought up his name for context on what a "disaster" looks like. He is a shining example of that.

I work for the army overseas, and talk to soldiers daily. Getting out of Iraq saved untold number of American lives.

The battle for Iraq had to be fought by Iraqis with us playing a back up roll. That is exactly what is happening now.
They are clearly improving, and taking back their country. We have barely lost anyone since we played a supporting roll.
Not to mention saving billions by having a more limited presence there.
With the conflict in the middle east Obamas decisions have kept us out of harms way.
Click to expand...

Obama's decisions in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria have been massive failures. As was Ukraine and the S China Sea leading the a growing rift with the Philippines.

Then you have growing problems like Russia and Turkey.

Also war deaths?

Far more of our armed forces have died in Afghanistan under Obama than under Bush. Around 70% of all American casualties in Afghanistan actually. America has bombed 7 countries under his presidency. He has drawn down troops but that hasn't stopped the American casualties.

We are also much, much closer to massive war at the end of his watch then we were the beginning.

So yeah Bush was a dumpster fire. So was Obama. Foreign policy wise at least.
 
Stoked said:
Obama's decisions in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria have been massive failures. As was Ukraine and the S China Sea leading the a growing rift with the Philippines.

Then you have growing problems like Russia and Turkey.

Also war deaths?

Far more of our armed forces have died in Afghanistan under Obama than under Bush. Around 70% of all American casualties in Afghanistan actually. America has bombed 7 countries under his presidency. He has drawn down troops but that hasn't stopped the American casualties.

We are also much, much closer to massive war at the end of his watch then we were the beginning.

So yeah Bush was a dumpster fire. So was Obama. Foreign policy wise at least.
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I just dont agree Stoked. What could he have done differently in decisions in Iraq, and Syria? Ive spelled out to you how his decision to not
lead the charge as many Republicans wanted, or to stay have saved us lives, and money. What could he have done to not have a "disaster" there?
What actions could have improved, and saved more American lives in those countries? If you are going to bring up deaths in Afghanistan then you have
to mention how many lives were saved in the Iraq/Syria conflict. Right?

In Afghanistan Obama adminstration had more years than Bush there. 500 deaths under Bush to around 1500 for Obama. Its a war conflict he inherited.
How is it a "disaster" though. We are at war there. What should he have done differently?

Russia is at conflict with our NATO allies and has been antagonizing the boarder. Weve responded by putting troops on the boarder. Again how is that a disaster? Russia and Turkey have issues. I dont think we should be allies with Turkey. Too many issues with that government, but again its a complicated situation due to their proximity, their military strength, and their NATO status.

What Ive read from you is things are bad, and its Obamas fault without any argument as to what he could have done differently. Im not going to sit here and say Obama is perfect or the best thing ever. Hes made mistakes. But "disaster"? come on!
 
Yes disaster.

You mention saving money in Iraq. Obama has spent more money than all other Presidents combined. But let's put that aside.

Arab Spring. Obama couldn't wait to get on board and in doing so he supported groups we really didn't know. Major contributor to the rise of the current middle east groups. Libya for example.

Syria, "Assad must go". Did we learn nothing from Iraq? Obama's policies have made that war dramatically worse leading to a fallout region and world wide. Yeah, Assad is trash. But how is the opposition working out. Look at the groups opposed to him? Only the Kurds are worth anything. Often the air supplies we drop end up in the hands of the exact people we are trying to stop.

How about going up to Putin and saying hey. We don't like Assad but we will back your play there if you cool it in Crimea? Or did we just think Russia would be cool with them in NATO? Let's keep pushing west...smh

But nope sanctions. Which hasn't done a damn thing except guarantee tension with Russia.

Or how about failing to join China's AII bank? That would have created a great amount of good will and possibly gotten China on board in our Asian pivot. Instead we didn't join and tried to pressure our allies into not joining as well. Something England and Israel rightfully ignored us on.

Throughout all of these things American goals have been anything but clear and that is something the President himself has admitted.

Name on part of the world Obama has engaged in that is better. Now I know that he isn't alone on the world stage but he has a record of failure on the world stage. That's a disaster.
 
Stoked said:
Yes disaster.

You mention saving money in Iraq. Obama has spent more money than all other Presidents combined. But let's put that aside.

Arab Spring. Obama couldn't wait to get on board and in doing so he supported groups we really didn't know. Major contributor to the rise of the current middle east groups. Libya for example.

Syria, "Assad must go". Did we learn nothing from Iraq? Obama's policies have made that war dramatically worse leading to a fallout region and world wide. Yeah, Assad is trash. But how is the opposition working out. Look at the groups opposed to him? Only the Kurds are worth anything. Often the air supplies we drop end up in the hands of the exact people we are trying to stop.

How about going up to Putin and saying hey. We don't like Assad but we will back your play there if you cool it in Crimea? Or did we just think Russia would be cool with them in NATO? Let's keep pushing west...smh

But nope sanctions. Which hasn't done a damn thing except guarantee tension with Russia.

Or how about failing to join China's AII bank? That would have created a great amount of good will and possibly gotten China on board in our Asian pivot. Instead we didn't join and tried to pressure our allies into not joining as well. Something England and Israel rightfully ignored us on.

Throughout all of these things American goals have been anything but clear and that is something the President himself has admitted.

Name on part of the world Obama has engaged in that is better. Now I know that he isn't alone on the world stage but he has a record of failure on the world stage. That's a disaster.
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Obama played executioner on civilians with his fingers on the drone strike buttons. Not even Bush stopped to that level of disgusting.
 
Revolution 9 said:
I believe Bush's foreign policy was a disaster and cost thousands of American lives. That to me is a "disaster".
I brought up his name for context on what a "disaster" looks like. He is a shining example of that.

I work for the army overseas, and talk to soldiers daily. Getting out of Iraq saved untold number of American lives.

The battle for Iraq had to be fought by Iraqis with us playing a back up roll. That is exactly what is happening now.
They are clearly improving, and taking back their country. We have barely lost anyone since we played a supporting roll.
Not to mention saving billions by having a more limited presence there.
With the conflict in the middle east Obamas decisions have kept us out of harms way.
Click to expand...

Bush Sr. going into Iraq in the first place. Totally uncalled for, except as a "UN bowery war". "Bowery War" is something I borrow from some analyst from "the New American" magazine, the publication of the John Birch Society. One of my nephews lived in Appleton, the JBS headquarters, and has gone to Shanghai where he works for the Chinese with a really big salary. Putin in Russia reads the JBS literature, and calls it on the UN. Analyzing US foreign policy in the light of UN "New World Order" rhetoric, Putin says the US created ISIS, that ISIS is Obama's brainchild.

So what is a "Bowery War"? It's where the Aztecs historically colluded with a supposed "enemy", a sort of hoity-toity vassal state with a semi-independent elite "king" of it's own, to have a war neither would really win. The royalty of both sides of the "war" would build a bowery, a sort of villa with a shaded pavilion, where they could watch their war, and drink a lot, with some "tomato" girls, lushes, in sexy outfits prancing around. They might cheer for whichever side was winning at the moment. One side would sashay across the battlefield and take some prisoners, then the other side would go get some for themselves. The prisoners taken would be kept as slaves. It was never intended to be militarily anybody's victory.

This is the essence of all wars since the UN was created. Putin criticized Obama and Hillary because, he says, they created ISIS. Hillary and Obama are not just stupid people who would leave a garrison ammo dump unguarded, like Benghazi, they did it deliberately, putting the arms there for the taking. Stupid sincere American staff was just sacrificed, well, ordered to stand down and let it happen, but they somehow got the idea they were Americans and should stand their ground and fight. Putin also says ISIS was selling the oil to American buyers to fund their war of atrocities. The ISIS soldiers are mostly mercenaries, with Western-asset, as in intelligence-service controlled hacks, "leadership". A sort of Iran-contra oil for guns rigged deal. Putin blames us for it all, probably with some reason.

I'm not saying Obama or Hillary are any worse than either of our Bushes, just that our leaders have loyalties to their agenda rather than what really is American interests. I'm not say that Chinese or Russian elites are any better, only that they have their own interests and are acting in their own interests, not ours, and that they are not stupid, either.

JBS is a top-down, little ideological outfit not a really dedicated constitutional republic defender either. Every once in a while, a real journalist gets canned for stepping outta line, as the author of the "Bowery Wars" article, was.

I have friends from Afghanistan, Iran, Palestine, and such. I tell them please don't be foolish and get involved with any American "help". We always betray anyone who trusts us. We intend to manipulate everyone on the world stage for the "cause" of supposedly good management but we are not "good management", we are the worst.

The UN has been a fraud from the gitgo, as was the League of Nations. The whole "progressive" movement of the past 180 years has been a fraud on mankind. The intellectual leadership has come from the core of the British Empire, from "The City of London" sort of mercantile genius, through their Press and their universities like Osford. It was put into high gear with the leadership of Lord Cecil Rhodes. Look at the way the map was drawn by the Brits in the Mideast, almost no country with borders that comprised a homogenous population. Look at how the Brits acted when Ghandhi got so popular with his peaceful challenge to their power. He had Moslem and Hindus united against the colonials, he was raised in a community where elders of both religions, as well as communist ideologues, discussed their ideas openly and peacefully. "Civil Disobedience" was a powerful tool against colonial power. But the Brits got just enough "rednecks" to spread the hate and got India and Pakistan partitioned, at huge cost in human lives.

We have got to stop the insidious spread of division and hate spread by Obama and many others who use it as a tool for holding power. Obama and Hillary, albeit through some second hands, have created the genocide in Syria. Maybe they just like playing a bizarre real-world game of "Risk", and don't really intend for their creation to take power. Maybe it is really evil genius for collecting the rabble of the Mideast and isolating them and cleaning them out. Who knows.

But it is not proper American foreign policy and has little to do with our real interests.

Our best foreign policy was our first one. "Alliance with none, commerce with all".
 
babe said:
Depends on your axiomatic mindset.

I think what really happened is public rejection of the way things are. Public awareness conflicting with management.

The progressives got rattled and lost their patience, pushed too hard.

Overall, this is a historic turning point. People worldwide want a more traditional life, more freedom, less bad management.
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So you've gone from speaking for the American people, to speaking for the entire human species! LOL.

There is nothing stopping you from living a more "traditional life". What the traditionalists really want is to prevent others from living their lives differently. Let freedom ring!
 
Siro said:
So you've gone from speaking for the American people, to speaking for the entire human species! LOL.

There is nothing stopping you from living a more "traditional life". What the traditionalists really want is to prevent others from living their lives differently. Let freedom ring!
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might be true of some terrorists falsely claiming the mantle of Islam, or some other ideological folks..... oh, say. . . . how about American progressives/pushers for globalism. . . .but most human beings don't really care that much what others do if they're doing what they care to do themselves......
 
babe said:
might be true of some terrorists falsely claiming the mantle of Islam, or some other ideological folks..... oh, say. . . . how about American progressives/pushers for globalism. . . .but most human beings don't really care that much what others do if they're doing what they care to do themselves......
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Ya, I come from the Muslims world. Over there, I'd say a good 90% would NOT be okay with others doing what they want, if it differs from their version of tradition. Same applies to most traditionalists I've met. Nothing is stopping a traditionalist from doing what they want. They can pray at school if they so choose, but that's not enough. You must pray too! They're free to marry whoever they want, but you must also marry who they want too.

I support globalism because I think it efficiently pushes technology forward and improves people's lives, although I'd go at it differently (make sure that everyone benefits from pro-growth policies by directly redistributing a % of the GDP back to the people). Apparently, many people don't like it, and they voted against it this election. A big chunk of the population is okay with it (phoney progressives, not real people, I know). Once they figure out that Trump and his people have no real solutions, people will change their tune.

The thing is, I don't completely disagree with your worldview. A bunch of elites think they know what's best for everyone, and they proceed to shape the world to their vision. There is little accountability for when they're wrong, and they have created a mess worldwide thru their "bad management". I just cannot stand your proclamations of what people REALLY want, and how they world REALLY is. It's tedious and nonsensical.
 
Most people find a lot of what others say "tedious and nonsensical", although perhaps it varies in degree, and I might seem more so to more folks. I try to say something that isn't "off the shelf" exactly, and truthfully, most people don't really listen to others. They will listen just enough to get the jist and put it in a box and be done with it.

Let's deal with this statistically. "most" is a claim about 50% or more. What people say may not be what they think, it depends on purpose and context, and in your part of the world, that 90% if it is accurate to what you hear might include a lot of people saying stuff because it's expected. I don't know that I can sustain the claim at the 50% level, but my point is perhaps best stated as "more people than you think" are willing to live and let live with a larger number of issues than perhaps it seems from the rhetorical exhibits.

I see the possible advantages and in some cases the actual positives of globalism programs, and my rhetoric is aimed at challenging "the management" to do better, at getting a few people interested in the issues. I would organize international cooperation on development under a different vision for mankind that engages and empowers sthe ordinary folk much better.
 
ONE LOVE said:
Quick question, what would you guys say was Obama's defining achievement over the past 8 years?
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Even though I think obamacare is a mess and needs to be replaced it did start us down a path we have needed to go down for a long time. I hope we can get some lawmakers that can actually build on it and maintain some momentum toward true universal health care.
 
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