Okur Update

[NUMBERICA]

For the record, I like Memo. He's a great player to have in a Bonner-role or if you have an All-NBA defender that can guard either 4s or 5s (Duncan, Howard) and if he's on a reasonable deal. He's a nice guy. Great. I wish him the best and I hope I'm wrong.

My ire is directed at the organization for extending him prematurely out of what was most certainly a fear-driven decision. Memo was a crappy 3rd option at best for most of the time he was here and past 30. He had another year with the Jazz and after 30, SMART teams just don't extend role players, ESPECIALLY when the deal extends into a new CBA during a recession. You never take a risk you don't have to, and there's no doubt in my mind the Jazz could've had him for cheaper and/or gotten a better year out of him last year. Because of that decision, the Jazz have been forced to make some tough decisions already and if the new CBA is stricter, prepare for the Jazz to find a way to further deplete their assets to save money.

 

[jazzmanian devil]

lol at the memo apologists

Resistance is futile, either convert with your own good will or the dark force will kick your faithless butt into shape...

Well, joke by side I don't think Okur will ever return into shape to be good enough to be a difference maker. As Numberica mentioned he should be still good enough though to be a solid role player but his contract is of course going to haunt him. It's probably not as bad as AK's situation, but it'll still be a thorn in everybodies eye(including the FO) from now on.

 

[Jeditiger]

LOL @ Okur haters.

No, nevermind. You are just sad armchair point guards.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Wow, box-score depth. The only problem is box score defense is incredibly flawed (otherwise Chris Paul is one of the best defenders in the league, as was Iverson, as was/is Camby). And the only OTHER problem is that on those Bulls teams they had three All-NBA defensive first team members (Jordan, Pippen, Rodman).

So,
1. Your stats don't prove a damn thing.
2. The Bulls team defense was suffocating.
3. They had Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, and Phil Jackson.

Those two bottom reasons alone automatically makes one a contender. A combination never before or since seen. The Jazz don't have those luxuries, even though Longley was twice the defender Okur was. At least. And that isn't saying much.

I used a bit of boxscore info to illustrate what I have seen of Luc Longley.
He was Memo Okur 15 years ago, except he couldnt shoot long range. You think Longley was twice the defender Okur is, you are out of your mind, and should rewatch those games, and you should read your own post before stating that. The rest of the Bulls team is what made their defense so good, Jordan, Pippen, etc... not Jean-Luc Longley.

Boxscore will mean something to you if you also have watched the games. The point is, you asked which championship team has won without a starting C who could defend. I told you who, and if you want to argue that Longley was a good defender you must be crazy.

 

[Marty McFly]

So who gave me the negative rep and said "Okur is better than 90% of the centers in this league?"

Centers I'd rather have than Okur, in no particular order:

Dwight Howard
Andrew Bynum
Pau Gasol
Marc Gasol
Yao Ming
Al Jefferson
Shaq
Robin Lopez
Brooke Lopez
David Lee
Joakim Noah
Andrew Bogut
Chris Kaman
Marcus Camby

 

[Jazz Spazz]

The Jazz took the Bulls to 6 games in consecutive years; in one of those years had a top-10 all-time point-differential (the other 9 won championships) and in one of those years they had the best record in the league while sweeping the twin towers Spurs and the Kobe/Shaq Lakers. They did all of that having a C rotation of Greg Ostertag, Greg Foster, and 6' 9" Antoine Carr. If that Jazz team has a Mark Eaton playing his averages, the Jazz win two titles and you'd have to be retarded to honestly think otherwise. With Memo? Who freaking knows, but the Pistons didn't get to hoist their trophy by the grace of Memo as he was playing only bit minutes that series. That's really all he should've been doing his whole career on a contender. But he hasn't been playing for one since that time, and that's not a coincidence.

I think the Jazz would have won in 97 and 98 if they had either Eaton, or Okur. Either would be an upgrade from Ostertag. My point is that it takes more than just a Center that defends to win. You also have to have shooters, and playmakers. Stockton and Malone came closer to a championship with Hornacek as a shooter than they did with Eaton as a defensive minded center. You are not looking at the whole picture if you make a statement like you did. It takes more. It takes team defense, playmakers, shooters, and a good bench... probably in that order.

You won't change your mind, so lets just agree to disagree, and hope we have a center this year that will produce, and defend adequately.

Oh, by the way, nice use of stats to try to prove your argument. Kindof like using some boxscore info to support a statement eh?..... blablablablabla

 

[Jazz Spazz]

So who gave me the negative rep and said "Okur is better than 90% of the centers in this league?"

Centers I'd rather have than Okur, in no particular order:

Dwight Howard
Andrew Bynum
Pau Gasol
Marc Gasol
Yao Ming
Al Jefferson
Shaq
Robin Lopez
Brooke Lopez
David Lee
Joakim Noah
Andrew Bogut
Chris Kaman
Marcus Camby

Take Shaq and David Lee off the list and I agree if you are talking about defense, but his offense is better than many on that list. While I do like Okur, and defend him somewhat, I agree more with those who feel the team needs more of a defensive minded Center. I dont always agree with their arguments like "Okur sucks", but we do need more blocked, and altered shots. There are no stats for altered shots, but you can see it in the shooting percentages.

David Lee is not a center, even if he gets stuck playing there from time to time. Shaq just should not be in the conversation, he has really slowed down, and cant stay on the floor very long.

 

[Sneakers]

Its not like Okur is gonna return and be the focal point of the offense... how can we not be excited to add a 7 foot, 3pt shooting and good rebounding role player to the team, especially mid-season? Almost like a trade..

 

[TheSilencer1313]

can you provide us with the same numbers for the rest of the team so we know who exactly should play and who shouldn't?

Haha, yes please do ;-)

Mr Stats....

 

[homeytennis]

Isn't David Lee about 5"6" in sneakers?

 

[NUMBERICA]

My point is that it takes more than just a Center that defends to win. You also have to have shooters, and playmakers.

My point is that in nearly every situation in the last 30 years, you need a defensive C to be a real contender. Especially since hand-checking is no longer allowed. If you want to pollute that with some moot crap involving the Jordan-era Bulls (one of the best series of teams in the history of the NBA), fine, but the Jazz are not constructed that well and Memo is one of the biggest reasons why.

 

[One Brow]

His transition defense sucks big time.

Who are the centers that play good transition defense?

So who gave me the negative rep and said "Okur is better than 90% of the centers in this league?"

30 teams, say 2.5 centers per team, 75 centers. Is Okur in the top 8? Maybe not.

Centers I'd rather have than Okur, in no particular order:

Dwight Howard
Andrew Bynum
Pau Gasol
Marc Gasol
Yao Ming
Al Jefferson
Shaq
Robin Lopez
Brooke Lopez
David Lee
Joakim Noah
Andrew Bogut
Chris Kaman
Marcus Camby

I disagree about Bynum (injures), O'Neal (now even slower than Okur), Lee (undersized), Robin Lopez (I have seen no evidence of an offensive game), and Camby (older and more often injured). Still, that's 9 I agree about, and there are probably a couple more (Perkins, maybe Milcic).

 

[WinningUgly]

Who are the centers that play good transition defense?



30 teams, say 2.5 centers per team, 75 centers. Is Okur in the top 8? Maybe not.



I disagree about Bynum (injures), O'Neal (now even slower than Okur), Lee (undersized), Robin Lopez (I have seen no evidence of an offensive game), and Camby (older and more often injured). Still, that's 9 I agree about, and there are probably a couple more (Perkins, maybe Milcic).

Howard, Noah, Bogut (if he is healthy), Bynum (when healthy) I would agree are centers I would rather see on my team. Pau Gasol is not a center, at least he could not be a starting center who averages 30-35 minutes at the position on a contending team which the Jazz are. Al Jefferson is also not a full time center. Lee might not be a big enough power forward on a contending team yet alone a center. Shaq is way past his prime. Kaman, Marc Gasol, Yao with a healthy Okur are all in the same ball park. Camby is like Boozer always in a suit, the Lopez twins I don't know I guess you could take a chance on one of them based on potential but I've seen twins from Stanford before and its not a pretty sight.

 

[Marty McFly]

Pau Gasol is not a center, at least he could not be a starting center who averages 30-35 minutes at the position on a contending team which the Jazz are.

Uh, you realize he started at C on the finals/championship Lakers, right?

 

[Scat]

On the offensive end I think the Okur/Al combo will be devastating. This is the type of scenario that Okur was made for. You have a beast down low that demands a double/triple team with your big man out at the 3 line. Either the opponent has to commit to putting their 2 biggest defenders on Al leaving Okur wide open or they pull their 5 out to guard Okur leaving Al with a single defender or try and double him with a 4 and a much smaller 3 (or 2). In this situation I think Okur will be more than capable of contributing. That said, it will likely be a defensive nightmare at the other end of the court.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Okur was on the grassy knoll.

True story.

 

[memo is money]

Ohhh, you realised that Lee and Shaq are nothing on defense. You are inconsistent with what you're trying to say... Robin Lopez??? Really? Just because he's athletic, young and ONLY plays defense. It's just stupid to compare multidimensional players to one-dimensional role scrubs. Can you imagine him or lots of those players on your list taking the game over? I HAVE NOT SEEN many of them doing it. Some of players on your list have a lot to prove to be reliable players who the coach trust and put on the court at the end of games. Nice try.

 

[Marty McFly]

Ohhh, you realised that Lee and Shaq are nothing on defense. You are inconsistent with what you're trying to say... Robin Lopez??? Really? Just because he's athletic, young and ONLY plays defense. It's just stupid to compare multidimensional players to one-dimensional role scrubs. Can you imagine him or lots of those players on your list taking the game over? I HAVE NOT SEEN many of them doing it. Some of players on your list have a lot to prove to be reliable players who the coach trust and put on the court at the end of games. Nice try.

I'd rather have a center who can play D 100% of the time than a center who plays D 0% of the time, is inefficient on O, can't do anything in the playoffs, and makes $11 million.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Lopez only plays defense? He's 22 and in less than 20 minutes per game last year, he averaged 8.4 ppg on 58.8% from the floor. Hardly an offensive scrub considering his little playing time and being the 4th or 5th option most times he's on the court. In fact, those numbers are nearly identical to Okur's second season on a per minute basis. Throw in Lopez' 4.9 rpg and 1.0 blocks per game, his age, his defensive ability, awareness and desire, and I'd take him eight days a week over Okur. Don't get me wrong. He's far from perfect. But he's a lot more of what we need than Memo and I think on his way to being a more complete center, if he's not already.

 

[Loki]

Good or bad Okur is on the Jazz plus I hate to see someone injured that can drain a clutch three pointer when it's needed. He may not be the absolute best in a lot of ways but he is clutch no doubt.

Get well Memo.