Point Guard Contingency Plan - Summer of 2017

[fishonjazz]

The Jazz moved the 12 pick to Atl. It's a safe bet to think if Utah wanted Teague they could have him.

Didn't the team who got teague want teague more than Hill though?

I don't think it was a pick em for the jazz. I think indy wanted teague and we were happy we could get hill.

 

[Game6Conley]

I've stated this before but drafting outside of the top 10 is the biggest crap shoot in the world and no way to build a team.

Not this year and not with the PG's.. Gems will fall.. One of my first posts on the forum was pointing out the depth of the C's in Rudy's draft.. this is a similar situation with the PG's..

now we don't know officially who's in and who's out, and there is a dropoff after the top handful of PG's, the rest of the crop is very strong tho I assure you..

the crop is so strong its gonna create a backlog of PG's who stay in college that could've gone in other drafts..

Jeff Teague never should've fallen that far he was a lottery talent. Same for Rudy, in both cases its a consequence of a perceived top-heavy-ness..

Jazz picks are in the 20's it'd be wise to go after the deepest position, no?

These prospects aren't just abstract ideas either I can produce a list of names and videos and basic scouting reports.. already started pages back but there's many more options.. One of them is from Lone Peak HS.. Hometown Hero Frank Jackson..

Even Allen Crappe fell to the 2nd rd in that **** guard draft with Rudy too.. The Jazz have positioned themselves with these late picks for a reason.. They didn't think GSW and OKC were gonna be ****ty..

 

[silesian]

Players saw Eva Turner, Luol Deng, and Mozgov get huge deals. Those are scrubs. They want that UFA goldmine.

Sent from my A0001 using JazzFanz mobile app

There will be really interesting debates this offseason, as teams say "but the market has changed" and agents say "yeah but my guy is better than this guy making beaucoup bucks"

 

[green]

Didn't the team who got teague want teague more than Hill though?

I don't think it was a pick em for the jazz. I think indy wanted teague and we were happy we could get hill.

We traded #12 to ATL.
ATL sent Teague to Ind.
Ind sent Hill to Utah.

I don't see how we could have just cut Ind out and traded #12 for Teague.

When Teague was traded, he wanted an extension. I think the Jazz thought that they would trade for Hill and not have to pay Hill max dollars (what Teague would have wanted) and gotten a similar player for a lot less.

What they have ended up with is a player who has missed 25 games, who wants Teague money and is a couple years older.

My point all along is that we would have been better this year with Teague and moving forward. Due to Hill's age and the fact that he has missed so many games and Teague hasn't, seems to be proving that I was right.

 

[green]

Had we traded for Teague and extended him, this thread wouldn't exist and we'd most likely be fighting for the third seed instead of the fourth through seventh seed.

Big difference if you are trying to keep Hayward. Especially when Boston can give you similar money with the improved endorsements, quite possibly the #1 seed in the East, a top 3 pick this year and probably next.

There is NO reason for Hayward to stay here. Not a single one. Trading for Hill instead of Teague makes staying in Utah an even less appealing option.

 

[silesian]

I'm not sure why you think Teague's contract is going to be much different than Hill's. They will probably get nearly the exact same contract.

Likely. But it is possible that Teague gets more money for longer because he has a longer productive runway (younger). My hunch is that Utah at 3 years 25MM per is the best Hill is going to get offered.

Only real threat of getting outbid is the Sixers. They really need an off-ball, defensive PG to complement and coach Simmons (who will be their primary playmaker PG-PF). Sixers could use his veteran presence and leadership (coach on the floor). They have "virtually unlimited" salary space for next 3 years (after which time Simmons is off his rookie contract (Embiid off year earlier). I can see them throwing a 4-year max at Hill. Does Hill want to finish his career winning or richer? Willing to be a veteran part of a rebuild process, when he will likely be gone when they are contenders?

 

[NUMBERICA]

The Jazz moved the 12 pick to Atl. It's a safe bet to think if Utah wanted Teague they could have him.

On this point, we have a rare agreement. On almost every other point we disagree, ESPECIALLY on why the Jazz valued Hill more (there isn't any significant, truthful argument about the Jazz "saving money" having Hill instead of Teague because of the salary floor).

 

[green]

Likely. But it is possible that Teague gets more money for longer because he has a longer productive runway due (younger). My hunch is that Utah at 3 years 25MM per is the best Hill is going to get offered.

Only real threat of getting outbid is the Sixers. They really need an off-ball, defensive PG to complement and coach Simmons (who will be their primary playmaker PG-PF). Sixers could use his veteran presence and leadership (coach on the floor). They have "virtually unlimited" salary space for next 3 years (after which time Simmons and Embiid are off rookie contracts). I can see them throwing a 4-year max at Hill. Does Hill want to finish his career winning or richer? Willing to be a veteran part of a rebuild process, when he will likely be gone when they are contenders?

This is what I think as well. I think the Sixers throw max money at a PG and Hill might be the only one who takes it. They will look to make the playoffs next year and build around Simmons, Embiid and Saric. It's almost too bad Embiid got hurt again. Had he stayed healthy and played at an All Star level instead of the all time great level he was playing at, the Sixers would have been a very, very interesting destination for a free agent.

Could Philly get someone like Blake Griffin to come and play with Embiid and Simmons?

George Hill - Simmons
Stauskas
Saric
Griffin
Embiid

Probably not, but if you are Griffin, the Clippers are going nowhere fast, especially if Paul gets 200 million.

 

[fishonjazz]

We traded #12 to ATL.
ATL sent Teague to Ind.
Ind sent Hill to Utah.

I don't see how we could have just cut Ind out and traded #12 for Teague.

When Teague was traded, he wanted an extension. I think the Jazz thought that they would trade for Hill and not have to pay Hill max dollars (what Teague would have wanted) and gotten a similar player for a lot less.

What they have ended up with is a player who has missed 25 games, who wants Teague money and is a couple years older.

My point all along is that we would have been better this year with Teague and moving forward. Due to Hill's age and the fact that he has missed so many games and Teague hasn't, seems to be proving that I was right.

Good post. Thanks for the answer and i see your point and agree.

 

[silesian]

So, what am I missing? Where is this "Hill is clearly the better player" stuff coming from?

I agree offensively. Teague is more explosive, Hill is a better shooter. A wash.

.....ORPM Hill = 2.65 (13th), Teague = 1.94 (15th)

I believe Hill is superior defensively, which is harder to measure.

.....DRPM Hill = 1.27 (3rd), Teague = -.25 (24th)



(ranking among PGs)

 

[Game6Conley]

I highly doubt Jeff Teague's contract is over 100M.. probably closer to 20MM per season.

 

[Game6Conley]

George Hill - Simmons
Stauskas
Saric
Griffin
Embiid

Bruh if the 76ers are payig Hill all that $$ it's to act as a safety valve/check-down for Point-forward Simmons and to play defense/hit big shots.

Swap Simmons for Saric and Saric for Simmons and then lets say they spend the $$$ on maxxing Kentavious Caldwell Pope as well..


Hill
KCP
Simmons
Saric
Embiid

 

[green]

I highly doubt Jeff Teague's contract is over 100M.. probably closer to 20MM per season.

Even more reason the Hill trade was a bust.

If we start next year without Hill or Hayward, how does your view of DL change?

 

[colton]

I'm curious to know which teams are interested in George Hill enough to pay him $132M? I've heard before that the Spurs/Hill are interested in each other, but can they afford to pay Hill that much?

Any team that pays Hill $132 million deserves that salary cap hell they are going to find themselves in.

(But I don't think any team will do it.)

 

[Game6Conley]

Any team that pays Hill $132 million deserves that salary cap hell they are going to find themselves in.

(But I don't think any team will do it.)

If Philly gets the Lakers 1st rd pick eating that deal would be even more affordable for them..That $$$ from Hillwould expire just intime for those two top-10 picks to hit RFA..

 

[Game6Conley]

Even more reason the Hill trade was a bust.

If we start next year without Hill or Hayward, how does your view of DL change?

Well I mean I wouldn't put it all on him obviously there's pressures and a collective coming to some of these decisions. On the flipside I wonder how much picks like Hood and Gobert should really be credited to him too, couldn't that have been from one of the scouts or the collective??

Certainly it'd show a lack of prudence in locking in("snowballing") assets on potentially fleeting assets but also I'm an optimist, I'd like to see what they do (It does seem like they could've finagled more picks over the years...)

There's a lack of vision too, they Carmelo'd themselves with Hill..

The biggest shame is look at all the assets Utah's thrown at the PG position and all they'd have to show for it is Exum, Burks and a 1yr Neto rental.. Schroder who's a super ****ing bargain at 70MM 4yrs would've fallen right in their laps.. **** like the exacerbates the Burke set-back..

I've long said Quinn is doing a better job than Lindsey.

 

[green]

If Philly gets the Lakers 1st rd pick eating that deal would be even more affordable for them..That $$$ from Hillwould expire just intime for those two top-10 picks to hit RFA..

In a lot of ways, the Sixers would be dumb to not max out a player like Hill. They need vets now to help the young guys out. They have their future (or will after this draft). Can you imagine if the Sixers won the lottery and pushed LA to #4?

Two top 4 picks, plus Simmons, Embiid and Saric. They'd be set. Bring in Hill, max another wing vet and let those guys grow under the vets and take over in 2-3 years.

 

[Game6Conley]

In a lot of ways, the Sixers would be dumb to not max out a player like Hill. They need vets now to help the young guys out. They have their future (or will after this draft). Can you imagine if the Sixers won the lottery and pushed LA to #4?

Two top 4 picks, plus Simmons, Embiid and Saric. They'd be set. Bring in Hill, max another wing vet and let those guys grow under the vets and take over in 2-3 years.

George Hill is a perfect match next to Ben Simmons. He'd also take a ton of pressure off of whatever Guard they draft.

PG - Hill, Fox*, Bayless
SG - Monk*, Stauskas/Covington, Luwawu
SF - Simmons, Gay/Covington, Anderson
PF - Saric, Gay, Holmes
C - Embiid, Okafor, Holmes

Given they pay Hill 30MM/yr and Rudy Gay 16MM/yr

That puts them at like $89MM....................................................


They wanted to pay Manu like 20MM this summer why would they blink twice about Hill for 30??

 

[tleikheen]

What I've seen from Ben Simmons ,he's a better ball distributor than GHIll is already.You don't take the ball out of Simmons hands for anyone and Saric is also a great ball distributor as well.

 

[Game6Conley]

What I've seen from Ben Simmons ,he's a better ball distributor than GHIll is already.You don't take the ball out of Simmons hands for anyone and Saric is also a great ball distributor as well.

Its not even close.. Ben Simmons is a way more dynamic passer/playmaker and George Hill is a scoring non-traditional PG that can shoot 3's and defend.. it's a match.. Hill doesn't need the ball for long to be effective. He's got a quick 1st step.