Romney Fundraiser - Secret Taping

[NAOS]

Please re-read my reply and then your's to mine. You will kindly excuse me from not defending what I said from your baiting reply (intentional or not).

I meant what I said sincerely. No need to read between the lines.

I would ask these frank questions to anybody in your position. I'm not baiting; I'm genuinely interested. You definitely have come out against certain kinds of spending, so it isn't a reach to think you're ALL IN for helping the non-industrious poor with zero strings attached. What are those strings? This is the real question. The other ones are baiting.

 

[Dr. Jones]

The trillion dollar question is who needs the help, not what strings are attached. I want to help real needs with no strings. Very difficult, if not impossible, to define lazy, etc.

There are people I know that I help. I know their circumstances and feel they truly are doing the best they can but fall short, financially. These people need help .. and the ability to accept with dignity.

I know others with their hands out and, by MY definition, are being just downright lazy. I don't empower them with handouts .. those involve strings, if you will.

How do you do that on a national scale? Well, I'm not smart enough to figure that out.

 

[NAOS]

The trillion dollar question is who needs the help, not what strings are attached. I want to help real needs with no strings. Very difficult, if not impossible, to define lazy, etc.

There are people I know that I help. I know their circumstances and feel they truly are doing the best they can but fall short, financially. These people need help .. and the ability to accept with dignity.

I know others with their hands out and, by MY definition, are being just downright lazy. I don't empower them with handouts .. those involve strings, if you will.

How do you do that on a national scale? Well, I'm not smart enough to figure that out.

I like this post.

But, FYI, there is an enormous amount of economic literature that hates the fact that creative and productive people aren't getting the breaks they need. The big questions are about the specifics of helping people that actually don't want to labor in the ways we recognize (which, for people at the bottom of the debt chain would only mean debt peonage anyway). Could you help someone if their goal was to make a political stance about NOT WORKING in these conditions?

 

[NAOS]

I wouldn't imagine Obama actually respects Americans generally. He is a visionary, and he has the path for us to a better way of life than we ever imagined, or understood, or wanted.

Anybody who actually respects Americans on average is not gonna run for office. "Who,. . . . me????" would be the wondering reply to anybody's suggestion that they run for dog catcher, or President.

That's why politicians talk down to the voters, and tell them things they imagine the people want to hear. And then go to New World Order UN committee meetings and plan how to manage, or manipulate us, into going along with the program.

Both political parties today are top-down propaganda outfits committed to imposing good government, as the elites imagine it, on us, whether we like it or not. Well, with the help of well-known sociological tools for inducing us to want what we're going to get.

babe nails it again.

 

[TroutBum]

First of all, I love this thread. Secondly, my opinions fluxuated from page 1 to 3, which is another reason I love this thread.

I read your paragraph and watched the video and it seemed like I watched something totally different from what you described. I'm guessing the "forget the politics" thing isn't going to happen here. I see a guy talking campaign strategy, no more, no less.

This was my first reaction as well. I don't think there is anyone here that dislikes Romney more than me, but I really saw nothing wrong with what was going on here. Was it a bit harsh? Ya, but it is what it is.

That's true - I never said that either. It just baffles me that a person with such a low opinion of American people is running for president.

It's hard to be optimistic when stats and facts pretty much tell you that you're wasting your time if you do. Again, I'm no fan of Romney, but having been around politics a little bit (lowest level, I know, but just go with it) I am starting to believe that the majority of people that run for public office DO have the best interests of the people they represent in mind. I don't know Romney's mind, but who's to say that deep in his heart he doesn't want to get elected simply to help that 47ish percent get off of Gov't aid and help themselves? In a world of bipartisan dog fighting, maybe the other side isn't as evil as you think. Just my two cents.

This is the part where the left wingers--regardless of their economic drain on our country--will pretend that they are the hard-working, artificially oppressed, no-we-built-its, and that anyone and everyone who has disagreements with them about how to grow and maintain a healthy society is a greedy pig trying to keep them from ever increasing their stage in life.

Just because you listened to every Al Gore speech doesn't make you environmentally conscious, it just makes you forever dumberer.

Brilliant. I hate repping your inflated ***, but it had to happen.

I wouldn't imagine Obama actually respects Americans generally. He is a visionary, and he has the path for us to a better way of life than we ever imagined, or understood, or wanted.

Anybody who actually respects Americans on average is not gonna run for office. "Who,. . . . me????" would be the wondering reply to anybody's suggestion that they run for dog catcher, or President.

That's why politicians talk down to the voters, and tell them things they imagine the people want to hear. And then go to New World Order UN committee meetings and plan how to manage, or manipulate us, into going along with the program.

Both political parties today are top-down propaganda outfits committed to imposing good government, as the elites imagine it, on us, whether we like it or not. Well, with the help of well-known sociological tools for inducing us to want what we're going to get.

As I said before, I think the people who represent you aren't as weird and crazy as you seem to think. Are some? I wouldn't doubt it. At the very worst, I enjoy reading your version of how things are, even if I think that 90% of it is rubbish. (the 10%, on the other hand, is down right provocative)

I didn't hear anything on that recording that is incorrect.

I hate agreeing with Scat O'Reilly, but again, I didn't either. Brutal, yes. Incorrect, no.

The trillion dollar question is who needs the help, not what strings are attached. I want to help real needs with no strings. Very difficult, if not impossible, to define lazy, etc.
There are people I know that I help. I know their circumstances and feel they truly are doing the best they can but fall short, financially. These people need help .. and the ability to accept with dignity.
I know others with their hands out and, by MY definition, are being just downright lazy. I don't empower them with handouts .. those involve strings, if you will.
How do you do that on a national scale? Well, I'm not smart enough to figure that out.

I admire the PKM's of the world. My old man is one, his dad was one, and one of my brothers is. If I wasn't so damn broke, I would be too -- but as it stands, I'm keeping it all for myself, thank you very much.

 

[NAOS]

And, to the OP:

Romney has always been a ****ing tool, but, yeah, this still found a way to irritate the **** out of me.

Have you all seen the video where he describes the condition of the Chinese factory he was buying? How about the one where he makes the joke about wishing he were Latino?

This guy is a bitch.

 

[Dr. Jones]

None of us are too good to take care of ourselves and our families if able. Even if we feel a job is beneath our qualifications. So what? That is entirely political and/or negatively motivated. Short answer, no I have no sympathy for anyone having an ability but turning their nose up, for what, a handout?

One example of someone I help. Family of 7.. husband and wife married 14 years, husband runs off with another woman and doesn't look back. Mom doing all she can. No way to work and be able to take care of 5 kids at home. She's trying, doing all she can, keeping her chin up .. for her kids. I asked her, one day, would you prefer to have help in the area of your rent/utilities being paid, or help with your kids so you can work. She emphatically said that though they were basically the same thing, she wanted her kids to grow up seeing their mom work, earn money, put food on the table, and rise above tough circumstances.

I found her a job and created an opportunity to have her kids wateched over in a positive and educational environment.

Not a week goes by that I don't have at least 3 or 4 people approach me and ask for a car, money, whatever .. 90% are just looking for a handout. I tell them no, politely. I also ask if they'd like an opportunity. Those same people find a creative way of saying no thanks...

 

[TroutBum]

None of us are too good to take care of ourselves and our families if able. Even if we feel a job is beneath our qualifications. So what? That is entirely political and/or negatively motivated. Short answer, no I have no sympathy for anyone having an ability but turning their nose up, for what, a handout?

One example of someone I help. Family of 7.. husband and wife married 14 years, husband runs off with another woman and doesn't look back. Mom doing all she can. No way to work and be able to take care of 5 kids at home. She's trying, doing all she can, keeping her chin up .. for her kids. I asked her, one day, would you prefer to have help in the area of your rent/utilities being paid, or help with your kids so you can work. She emphatically said that though they were basically the same thing, she wanted her kids to grow up seeing their mom work, earn money, put food on the table, and rise above tough circumstances.

I found her a job and created an opportunity to have her kids wateched over in a positive and educational environment.

Not a week goes by that I don't have at least 3 or 4 people approach me and ask for a car, money, whatever .. 90% are just looking for a handout. I tell them no, politely. I also ask if they'd like an opportunity. Those same people find a creative way of saying no thanks...

Dude, can I have a car?

 

[Dr. Jones]

Not a week goes by that I don't have at least 3 or 4 people approach me and ask for a car, money, whatever .. 90% are just looking for a handout. I tell them no, politely. I also ask if they'd like an opportunity. Those same people find a creative way of saying no thanks...

By the way, right or wrong, it is this group that I envision when I hear "TAX THE RICH!!!"

Unfair? Likely. Just being honest.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Dude, can I have a car?

You have a car. Greedy bastage.

 

[NAOS]

Taxes are an important issue, but they are nothing compared to the issue of debt relief.

Well, I guess taxes are used for debt relief... like how the Wall Street Fat Cats got bailed out.

 

[The Thriller]

what should happen to the non-industrious poor? Simple question.

Final Solution:

 

[NAOS]

None of us are too good to take care of ourselves and our families if able. Even if we feel a job is beneath our qualifications. So what? That is entirely political and/or negatively motivated. Short answer, no I have no sympathy for anyone having an ability but turning their nose up, for what, a handout?

One example of someone I help. Family of 7.. husband and wife married 14 years, husband runs off with another woman and doesn't look back. Mom doing all she can. No way to work and be able to take care of 5 kids at home. She's trying, doing all she can, keeping her chin up .. for her kids. I asked her, one day, would you prefer to have help in the area of your rent/utilities being paid, or help with your kids so you can work. She emphatically said that though they were basically the same thing, she wanted her kids to grow up seeing their mom work, earn money, put food on the table, and rise above tough circumstances.

I found her a job and created an opportunity to have her kids wateched over in a positive and educational environment.

Not a week goes by that I don't have at least 3 or 4 people approach me and ask for a car, money, whatever .. 90% are just looking for a handout. I tell them no, politely. I also ask if they'd like an opportunity. Those same people find a creative way of saying no thanks...

this lady is lucky to know you. I can think of at least a couple billion that need to get similarly lucky. Too bad yours isn't a plan that will scale up.

 

[UGLI baby]

I admire the PKM's of the world. My old man is one, his dad was one, and one of my brothers is. If I wasn't so damn broke, I would be too -- but as it stands, I'm keeping it all for myself, thank you very much.

This just isn't true, Dave.

I know you don't like bragging about your good deeds, but I appreciate the $25 you donated to me in poker this weekend and the $30 donation you made to the Uteswinagain foundation.

 

[Dr. Jones]

this lady is lucky to know you. I can think of at least a couple billion that need to get similarly lucky. Too bad yours isn't a plan that will scale up.

We'll never know. I was only using those examples in an effort to answer your questions regarding strings being attached. It's obviously a complicated issue.

 

[JAG]

That's true - I never said that either. It just baffles me that a person with such a low opinion of American people is running for president.

Perhaps it wasn't Obama himself, but in 2008, I distinctly remember hearing HIS WIFE give a speech where she stated "This is the first time in my adult life that I'm proud of my country."

She was 44 at the time. If her husbands nomination (or whatever it was) was the first thing that made her proud of her country, why the heck would I want them in the white house? To me, that was the ultimate insult anyone in the political spotlight can say.

Romney probably shouldn't have said it, but it was definitely a true statement. The democratic party constantly sells a version of socialism that more and more Americans are buying into. Those people will never vote for a party that continues to believe in capitalism. Romney was stating a fact - nothing more.

The welfare programs were designed to help those that really needed it. But in the last 15 years or so it has been abused. I have heard stories of illegals getting benefits while the elderly who have worked their whole lives get nothing. I have heard of families double dipping into these systems (where a mother shows up with kids for (and the children's fingers are pricked and blood taken) and the next day another women shows up with the same children (bandaids on the fingers, blood record as evidence) and the institutions are just suppose to ignore it and prick the other finger. A story on the Today show about a double income family with 4 or 5 kids get like $600 worth of food stamps each month and claim they are scraping by the at the end of each month, having to pour water on their kids cereals (what in the world are they buying with that money? I grew up in a househole of 8 with one income and we made it just fine on $600 a month - sometimes stretching it out to 6 weeks) And I have seen first hand people buying food (mainly junk) on food stamps and then buying beer with their own money, and then walking out and getting into a souped-up escalades. There is an entitlement issue and I don't think it bold of any politician to bring it to light - heck, perhaps he'll even be able to fix some of the corruption in the welfare system.

 

[The Thriller]

I think the real issue is that Romney's vision for the country is the exact opposite of what we need.

We need more regulation on Wall Street, not less.

We need more protection for American goods, businesses, and workers, not less.

We need less free market and more protection.

We need less military, defense spending, threats to Iran, and nation building, not more.

We need higher taxes, not lower. Flat taxes hurt the middle and lower classes. Raise taxes on the rich. It only makes sense to raise taxes on those who can afford it. Duh.

We need more education, help students gain higher levels of education without going thousands of dollars in debt, not less. In fact, the GOP's threats to raise the interest level and cuts to Pell Grants are the exact opposite of what we should be doing. Seriously, how are Americans suppose to compete with Asian and European students when their education is subsidized by the government while many students here either don't go (because they can't afford it) or are saddled with huge amounts of debt. One of the main reasons why we became so strong economically was that many Americans after WWII received the training (during the war) or after (GI Bill) which helped fuel our economy.

We need more government involvement in health care, not less. Get rid of insurance companies altogether. Why should some fat *** CEO be making millions of HC and cutting my benefits when I need them the most?

We need more education in foreign languages, not less. These English Only laws are ridiculous. Americans should be learning AT LEAST Chinese and Spanish. At least. French and Portuguese should be required as well.

We need more government involvement in our banking system, not less. Obviously, the big banks are waaayyyy too big to fail and thus need to be broken up. They won't do so on their own, so that leaves the government the only power available to force these banks to break up.

We need less government involved in social issues, not more. If you oppose gay marriage or abortion, don't get one. The Lord gave us all free agency. If we use it poorly, then we'll eventually pay for it.

We need(ed) more stimulus spending to get our economy on the right track. When private companies don't feel like hiring, SOMEONE needs to pick up the slack. Worrying about our debt and making cuts thus putting more people out of work doesn't fix the economy. It makes it worse. Duh

Lastly, the whole vision of poor, old, students, and black/Hispanic people killing our country is flat out wrong. No one wakes up saying, "gee, I feel like not working today but living off the government's small check forever. Sounds like fun." 99.9 % of Americans would prefer a career over welfare checks. Americans are deferring to government checks because the damn private sector hasn't hired Americans in years. Middle-class folks are becoming poor while poor people are becoming poorer because wages have slid, jobs have been lost, and dreams have been shattered despite promises that "tax cuts" to the "rich" would help us all! Well... I'm waiiitting! When will the "job creators" start creating jobs?

Folks like Romney are killing our country. The big banks, the greedy *** wall street people, the rich who are buying off government, the dudes forcing government contracts for their tanks, jets, and bombs that even the Pentagon doesn't want.

I see the key to rebuilding America starting with getting the middle-class back online. To do that, we need to get millions of Americans back to work and school. Then, we need to focus on health care. Then we need to drastically cut back on our empire. Fewer troops abroad and more folks studying to become doctors, engineers, and teachers.

The way to keep America down, is to continue with the tax cuts for the rich while cutting benefits to the poor. The way to destroy our Democracy here is to continue to "spread" it abroad (wasting billions of our treasury and thousands of our youth). The way to destroy our country is to focus on building "up" the upper 10% while "praying" that eventually they'll give the rest of us some of their wealth.

Again, when have trickle down economics (ever) worked?

If they worked so well, then why has the middle-class disappeared and job creation here sucked so bad over the past 12 years?

 

[Dr. Jones]

This just isn't true, Dave.

I know you don't like bragging about your good deeds, but I appreciate the $25 you donated to me in poker this weekend and the $30 donation you made to the Uteswinagain foundation.

By the way, my 'bet' was Utes by 3 (last Tuesday). What do I win?

 

[TroutBum]

This just isn't true, Dave.

I know you don't like bragging about your good deeds, but I appreciate the $25 you donated to me in poker this weekend and the $30 donation you made to the Uteswinagain foundation.

Did you end up winning on Friday? Wow. There is a statute of limitations on this whole BYU/Utah debacle, and if you dingle berries don't send me your payment info by the end of the week, then all bets are off.

 

[UGLI baby]

Did you end up winning on Friday? Wow. There is a statute of limitations on this whole BYU/Utah debacle, and if you dingle berries don't send me your payment info by the end of the week, then all bets are off.

Yes I won. Basically undefeated when not drinking. I tried bumping the thread like 8 times just to make you see. Btw I still don't think I've recovered from the meatballs and the thought crossed my mind you were trying to put me out of commission for The Utes game...