Rudy Gobert "Greatest Jazz Center of All Time" Countdown Thread

[jope]

In my opinion Eaton is still 1, Memo is still 2. But Rudy passing both is just a matter of time and longevity. Eaton played 11 seasons for the Jazz, Memo a little over 6. Rudy is finishing his 5th. If he plays at his current level (or better) for the rest of his current contract he's going to pass Memo and likely big Mark too.

Rudy is already a much better player than okur. Okur was a shooter, who wasn’t actually that amazing at shooting. He was ok. As a 6 11 player he only shot around 45% from the field in Utah, which is around what our 6’3” combo guard who gets criticized for poor efficiency shoots. He only broke 40% 3pt one season in his tenure here. He was an above average offensive player but He was a negative defensively nearly every year.

Goberts efficiency is much better. His last two years he’s averaged around 14ppg which more than what okur averaged here for 3 of his 6 seasons. Shoots a much much better percentage and annihilates okur defensively. Gobert has a much larger impact on the offense AND defense, with better efficiency.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Because Gobert is eternal and without beginning or end he has always been our best center ever.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Rudy is a lot better than Eaton ever was.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Anyone who says Eaton is better than Gobert is smoking rocks. Same w/ Memo.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I get awarding points for longevity of career, but Gobert was a top 15 player last year and again this year. Eaton never approached that.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Did a TPA search to compare Gobert, Okur, and Eaton.

Gobert has the top 2 total TPA (total points added, basically a statistical metric) seasons. Eaton has the third. Eaton's an offensive wreck in this metric, but his defensive metric blows Rudy out of the water. Total blocks and BPG are probably the biggest factors, but I'm not as informed on calculations of TPA.

Take a look at the attached image.

 

[gregbroncs]

In my opinion Eaton is still 1, Memo is still 2. But Rudy passing both is just a matter of time and longevity. Eaton played 11 seasons for the Jazz, Memo a little over 6. Rudy is finishing his 5th. If he plays at his current level (or better) for the rest of his current contract he's going to pass Memo and likely big Mark too.

I'd hear an argument for Eaton was better than Gobert. No way Gobert could survive in the age Eaton played in. It was too physical, Eaton was a big guy playing against a ton of big guys. With those rules and that era Gobert would get beaten up and abused in the post. His offense would be every bit as worthless as Eaton's was in that era as well.

But with the current set of rules Gobert is better than Eaton, Eaton couldn't survive in the current NBA. Too slow can't guard outside of the paint and he'd get destroyed by shooters.

There is no way in hell that Memo is even in this conversation. He's simply not the same impact of player that those 2 are/were.

 

[MilesDeep]

I don't think that Memo even belongs in the conversation with Eaton and Rudy. Rudy is just starting to have the impact that Eaton did. I believe that Rudy will in the end be far and away the better player, but it's stretching to say that he's there already. In Eaton's era, if zone defenses were allowed, he would have easily been the best defensive center in history with no chance of anyone ever catching him because of the way the game has progressed. Eaton was huge, did not need to jump (much) to block shots and had fantastic hand speed matched with a innate sense of timing. Had Eaton been treated fairly, the Jazz would have taken down Magic's mighty Lakers.

 

[Ellipse]

I don't think that Memo even belongs in the conversation with Eaton and Rudy. Rudy is just starting to have the impact that Eaton did. I believe that Rudy will in the end be far and away the better player, but it's stretching to say that he's there already. In Eaton's era, if zone defenses were allowed, he would have easily been the best defensive center in history with no chance of anyone ever catching him because of the way the game has progressed. Eaton was huge, did not need to jump (much) to block shots and had fantastic hand speed matched with a innate sense of timing. Had Eaton been treated fairly, the Jazz would have taken down Magic's mighty Lakers.

I remember the '91 series against Phoenix, where Kevin Johnson ran layup drills whenever Eaton went to the bench for a breather. When Eaton was in the game, KJ wouldn't even try to enter the paint. Gobert doesn't get that kind of respect ... yet.

 

[jope]

I'd hear an argument for Eaton was better than Gobert. No way Gobert could survive in the age Eaton played in. It was too physical, Eaton was a big guy playing against a ton of big guys. With those rules and that era Gobert would get beaten up and abused in the post. His offense would be every bit as worthless as Eaton's was in that era as well.

But with the current set of rules Gobert is better than Eaton, Eaton couldn't survive in the current NBA. Too slow can't guard outside of the paint and he'd get destroyed by shooters.

There is no way in hell that Memo is even in this conversation. He's simply not the same impact of player that those 2 are/were.

I don't think that Memo even belongs in the conversation with Eaton and Rudy. Rudy is just starting to have the impact that Eaton did. I believe that Rudy will in the end be far and away the better player, but it's stretching to say that he's there already. In Eaton's era, if zone defenses were allowed, he would have easily been the best defensive center in history with no chance of anyone ever catching him because of the way the game has progressed. Eaton was huge, did not need to jump (much) to block shots and had fantastic hand speed matched with a innate sense of timing. Had Eaton been treated fairly, the Jazz would have taken down Magic's mighty Lakers.

I remember the '91 series against Phoenix, where Kevin Johnson ran layup drills whenever Eaton went to the bench for a breather. When Eaton was in the game, KJ wouldn't even try to enter the paint. Gobert doesn't get that kind of respect ... yet.

It’s definitely apples to oranges. Could you imagine Eaton’s knees trying to guard Anthony Davis sprinting the perimeter and raining threes? And yes Rudy is frail, especially against the Ewing’s of the world. But he is also very quick and smart, and still long as hell. Shawn Bradley survived just fine and he was 230 lbs.

There’s an argument to be made against Rudy’s offense because of spacing and the physicality of that era, but Rudy could also just camp at mid court every other possession and be extremely rested defensively ala Eaton. Not to mention that no one shot threes back then so Rudy would have double (triple?) the shot attempts to try to block.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Anyone who says Eaton is better than Gobert is smoking rocks. Same w/ Memo.

I don't think Framer's rankings in this thread were based on who is intrinsically the best. It was always about statistical accumulation. So while I agree with you that Rudy is the best center the Jazz have ever had, it's going to take a while before he becomes the statistical leader.

 

[Siro]

@framer you should probably finish what you started.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I don't think Framer's rankings in this thread were based on who is intrinsically the best. It was always about statistical accumulation. So while I agree with you that Rudy is the best center the Jazz have ever had, it's going to take a while before he becomes the statistical leader.

He will probably never pass Eaton in blocks though. It's an era thing. Eaton played when barely anyone took 3's and the big position was way less athletic. If Rudy played in that era he would probably average 5+ blocks per game for multiple seasons.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

He will probably never pass Eaton in blocks though. It's an era thing. Eaton played when barely anyone took 3's and the big position was way less athletic. If Rudy played in that era he would probably average 5+ blocks per game for multiple seasons.

I realize that. He will pass him in accumulated stats if he plays at least 3-5 more years. That's the measure that Framer was using.

 

[Piso]

Basketreference stats (comparison between OKUR, EATON and GOBERT) :
TS% : 1 GOBERT 63,6% 2 OKUR 56,6% 3 EATON 49,6%
TRB% : 1 GOBERT 20,7% 2 EATON 15% 3 OKUR 14,5%
BLK% : 1 EATON 6,9% 2 GOBERT 6,5% 3 OKUR 1,9%
AST% : 1 OKUR 10,4% 2 GOBERT 6,7% 3 EATON 4,3%
STL% : 1 GOBERT 1,2% 2 OKUR 0,9% 3 EATON 0,7%
TOV% : 1 OKUR 11,1% 2 GOBERT 16,7% 3 EATON 19,8%
BPM : 1 GOBERT 4,5 2 OKUR 1,6 3 EATON 1,5

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Basketreference stats (comparison between OKUR, EATON and GOBERT) :
TS% : 1 GOBERT 63,6% 2 OKUR 56,6% 3 EATON 49,6%
TRB% : 1 GOBERT 20,7% 2 EATON 15% 3 OKUR 14,5%
BLK% : 1 EATON 6,9% 2 GOBERT 6,5% 3 OKUR 1,9%
AST% : 1 OKUR 10,4% 2 GOBERT 6,7% 3 EATON 4,3%
STL% : 1 GOBERT 1,2% 2 OKUR 0,9% 3 EATON 0,7%
TOV% : 1 OKUR 11,1% 2 GOBERT 16,7% 3 EATON 19,8%
BPM : 1 GOBERT 4,5 2 OKUR 1,6 3 EATON 1,5

Exactly.

You could go further and include PER, VORP, eFG or basic stats like PPG, RPG, FG% and Rudy blows Eaton away in all of them. The only thing Eaton has on Rudy is blocks at their respective peaks.

 

[infection]

Very crazy to think Okur and Eaton had essentially the same TRB%.

 

[Greasy84]

I wonder if there were Bulls fans that thought Jerry Sloan was better than MJ.

 

[gregbroncs]

Exactly.

You could go further and include PER, VORP, eFG or basic stats like PPG, RPG, FG% and Rudy blows Eaton away in all of them. The only thing Eaton has on Rudy is blocks at their respective peaks.

All of that ignores the different era's of basketball. I'm with the Rudy supporters I think he's better. But those stats don't necessarily compensate for the different rules and styles of play back then.

 

[bigmike]

Longevity is obviously part of the equation, and I'm not old enough to appreciate Mark Eaton. Having said that, Rudy is far and away the best Jazz C I have seen play in my lifetime and it isn't even close.