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Spurs Doing What Jazz Should be Doing

Ferguson_Mellochill said:
If the Jazz want to have any chance of young stud All Stars wanting to stay in Utah through their 2nd contract, the Jazz really need to bring those players in together, like OKC did with KD, Russ and Harden. Then use the momentum of increasing the win totals and moving up the standings to make it harder for those guys to leave.
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No NBA franchise should want to hold onto anyone past their 2nd contract unless they are truly competing.

NBA fans dont want to hear this, but small market teams are basically farm teams who are playing the lottery hoping they get the right combination to pop off at the right time for everything to work. Maybe you get a generational star you can continuously build around if you are lucky enough to have no blown your entire asset base and have enough pieces you can move around to make things work long-term, or you do an exceptional job of developing under the radar prospects to replace your role players/other starters who become too expensive due to prolonged winning.

Then the big markets will take the big swings to bring top talent together.

Luckily the players are so expensive by that time it often blows up in the big market team's face so it's not too out of balance.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Tank mode? You know they owe every pick directly to the Rockets or a pick swap for the next like 4 years?
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If KD asks out as well they'll probably sell off their whole roster for draft capital, I'm guessing he meant they're a team to watch as a potential trade partner.
 
I can think of a lot of other teams I'd rather trade to vs. ATL, but the reality is that other cellar dwellers know they suck and aren't giving up the picks.

My whole point is you can never have another Hayward 2.0 situation - if a guy wants out, he wants out, but at least be holding some assets in return vs. empty pockets.
 
YoungJefe said:
I also think that it's easier to trade your best player away when the team isn't winning.
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Is it? It's not like they are the Kings, they had a clear upward trajectory. Trading away your best player is tough and going to be met with backlash no matter what.
 
YoungJefe said:
If KD asks out as well they'll probably sell off their whole roster for draft capital, I'm guessing he meant they're a team to watch as a potential trade partner.
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I would assume they try to build around Simmons and win. Simmons got what he wanted in the end. A team of his own.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
No NBA franchise should want to hold onto anyone past their 2nd contract unless they are truly competing.

NBA fans dont want to hear this, but small market teams are basically farm teams who are playing the lottery hoping they get the right combination to pop off at the right time for everything to work. Maybe you get a generational star you can continuously build around if you are lucky enough to have no blown your entire asset base and have enough pieces you can move around to make things work long-term, or you do an exceptional job of developing under the radar prospects to replace your role players/other starters who become too expensive due to prolonged winning.

Then the big markets will take the big swings to bring top talent together.

Luckily the players are so expensive by that time it often blows up in the big market team's face so it's not too out of balance.
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The cautionary tale is Orlando. They should have won three championships with Shaq and Penny. They nailed back-to-back drafts with top-of-the-lottery, All NBA talent. They made the NBA Finals by Shaq's third year in the league. Instead, Shaq bullies his way to the Lakers at the end of his rookie deal and eventually ends up winning 3 chips for them. It even took Shaq another 4 years before he reached the Finals with the Lakers, but the dude wanted L.A.

The only reason the Jazz reached the Finals back in the late 90s is because both Karl Malone and John Stockton were fiercely loyal to the Jazz, and it was an era before players colluded to form their own superteams. I'm not sure that situation will ever be repeatable.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Is it? It's not like they are the Kings, they had a clear upward trajectory. Trading away your best player is tough and going to be met with backlash no matter what.
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They have a lot of young guys with potential but I think that they're almost at the point where they have too many guys, time to consolidate those assets into other players or premium draft capital.

Keldon Johnson, Murray, and Vassell all made pretty signifiant leaps last season and they really didn't get any better. Pop will be 74 this season so I can't imagine he'll stick around much longer either. The Spurs are really in the worst spot you can possibly be in, not bad enough to tank for a potential star and not good enough to make the playoffs.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
The cautionary tale is Orlando. They should have won three championships with Shaq and Penny. They nailed back-to-back drafts with top-of-the-lottery, All NBA talent. They made the NBA Finals by Shaq's third year in the league. Instead, Shaq bullies his way to the Lakers at the end of his rookie deal and eventually ends up winning 3 chips for them. It even took Shaq another 4 years before he reached the Finals with the Lakers, but the dude wanted L.A.
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I think the internet has also changed things drastically. LeBron/Durant/Giannis all rose to being gigantic stars in small markets.
 
YoungJefe said:
I think the internet has also changed things drastically. LeBron/Durant/Giannis all rose to being gigantic stars in small markets.
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True, but Lebron left Cleveland to go win chips in Miami. He left Cleveland a 2nd time to chase rings in L.A. Durant choked a playoff series against the Warriors and then went and joined them. Giannis is the only guy who carried his original franchise all the way. The only reason Lebron went back to Cleveland is because Miami met some resistance, DWade was declining, and he could team up with Kyrie and Kevin Love in his home state.

It's not about becoming a star. It's about sticking around with your first franchise after the 2nd contract.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
True, but Lebron left Cleveland to go win chips in Miami. He left Cleveland a 2nd time to chase rings in L.A. Durant choked a playoff series against the Warriors and then went and joined them. Giannis is the only guy who carried his original franchise all the way. The only reason Lebron went back to Cleveland is because Miami met some resistance, DWade was declining, and he could team up with Kyrie and Kevin Love in his home state.

It's not about becoming a star. It's about sticking around with your first franchise after the 2nd contract.
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Yeah good point. I think another issue for small market teams is that when they do hit on star, franchise changing level players, a lot of the time those guys are so good from the start so it makes it impossible for the team to tank again for another star.
 
Man, if Atlanta gets Murray and Gobert that team is going to be good. Putting two great defenders around Young (3 if they keep Hunter) and putting Gobert with two great passers.
 
Ujfanatic said:
Man, if Atlanta gets Murray and Gobert that team is going to be good. Putting two great defenders around Young (3 if they keep Hunter) and putting Gobert with two great passers.
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I just don't see how they can give up 3-4 firsts + players for Murray and still have enough to land Rudy.
 
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