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The 800lb gorilla

PG_AB said:
Was the Jazz trading the 35th pick in the 2014 draft for a 2nd in 2015, with Jordan Clarkson and Nikola Jokic (Jerami Grant and Dwight Powell too) on the board asinine?
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Ummm that's some straw man **** right there. Not even comparable at all... we traded an asset with potentially more value for an asset that had much more current value. In all of your what ifs you've looked past the what if we drafted player x and suck this year and Hayward bails... what would our current record be without Hill.

Your are blaspheming a god please be careful.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Ummm that's some straw man **** right there. Not even comparable at all... we traded an asset with potentially more value for an asset that had much more current value. In all of your what ifs you've looked past the what if we drafted player x and suck this year and Hayward bails...

Your are blaspheming a god please be careful.
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It's simply an example of an asinine move perpetrated by this front office. Extrapolate from that whatever ya want. That's an example of low-hanging fruit, right infront of their faces that they turned a blind eye on.

Handlogten's Heros said:
what would our current record be without Hill.
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Likely winless, but I do believe Exum would be showing well. In the grand scheme of things whats that record really matter though, or are you of the opinion that George Hill is going to lead them to the chip? Is George Hill putting assess in the seats or selling Jerseys? I see plenty of empty seats at the homegames.. Th btter the team performs the more the youngins are gonna want to get paid.. there's lots of factors in play here..

Who's to say the Jazz don't draft a good project with that pick ? The Jazz have an awful season without Hill and the current plague of injuries and then the Jazz dont get a really good pick in next years draft and trade that for a player better than Hill? or draft another great prospect? It's not like they couldn't still sign George Hill as a FA in that scenario!
 
I'm not going to hear any talk of what is "asinine" from the dude who wanted to max Harrison Barnes. If we follow YOUR timeline we lose one or all of Hayward, Hood, and Favors because we are paying THAT stiff. Following your advice we would have Barnes and some dude we drafted at #12, no Hill, and probably no shot at the playoffs.

If you were prepared to max Harrison Barnes and deal with the financial complications of doing that, you sure as Hell pay Hill what he is worth which should be considerably less than what you would have been paying Barnes. If we are a top 4 team in the west we SHOULD be paying some luxury tax. It is what the winning teams do. If we have 5 guys that are worthy of max contracts we sign them all and possibly trade one for something good and cheaper when the time comes. That is the beauty of developing your players, you get to keep them if you want them. Sure as hell beats overpaying for an overhyped stiff like Barnes.
 
PG_AB said:
So what type of discount do you think he's going to find acceptable? 30% off market value?? Obviously he deserves a raise.


and who do you let walk in the summer of 2018? Favors Exum or Hood?
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lol, to early to tell. To many "what ifs". What if Exum regresses, What if Hood has a career ending injury, What if a better PF than Favors wants to come to Utah...

What I "extrapolate" from this convo is thank the lord jesus you are as far removed from the Jazz FO as you are.
 
PG_AB said:
It's simply an example of an asinine move perpetrated by this front office. Extrapolate from that whatever ya want. That's an example of low-hanging fruit, right infront of their faces that they turned a blind eye on.


Likely winless, but I do believe Exum would be showing well. In the grand scheme of things whats that record really matter though, or are you of the opinion that George Hill is going to lead them to the chip? Is George Hill putting assess in the seats or selling Jerseys? I see plenty of empty seats at the homegames.. Th btter the team performs the more the youngins are gonna want to get paid.. there's lots of factors in play here..

Who's to say the Jazz don't draft a good project with that pick ? The Jazz have an awful season without Hill and the current plague of injuries and then the Jazz dont get a really good pick in next years draft and trade that for a player better than Hill? or draft another great prospect?
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you might as well add 'life without Hayward' in these scenarios.

But nobody would enjoy blowing it all up more than PGAB
 
PG_AB said:
It's simply an example of an asinine move perpetrated by this front office. Extrapolate from that whatever ya want. That's an example of low-hanging fruit, right infront of their faces that they turned a blind eye on.


Likely winless, but I do believe Exum would be showing well. In the grand scheme of things whats that record really matter though, or are you of the opinion that George Hill is going to lead them to the chip? Is George Hill putting assess in the seats or selling Jerseys? I see plenty of empty seats at the homegames.. Th btter the team performs the more the youngins are gonna want to get paid.. there's lots of factors in play here..

Who's to say the Jazz don't draft a good project with that pick ? The Jazz have an awful season without Hill and the current plague of injuries and then the Jazz dont get a really good pick in next years draft and trade that for a player better than Hill? or draft another great prospect? It's not like they couldn't still sign George Hill as a FA in that scenario!
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Not every move can be the move that brings the championship. Under that line of thinking we should have 28 tanking sixes and the cavs and warriors.

Also the warriors championship never would have happened... why trade two first round picks to sign aight when you aren't the clear favorite to win a championship.

Go ahead and set up whatever other straw man arguments and revise history as you need to make it feel like you were right here.
 
PG_AB said:
rolling back on what? - Going for it now, when the Warriors are obviously going to win still seems spastic to me, like dudes going after job security instead of the big picture..
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You wanted us to max Harrison Barnes and now you're bitching about the Jazz trying to be good too early.

Ha. Ha. Ha.
 
framer said:
I'm not going to hear any talk of what is "asinine" from the dude who wanted to max Harrison Barnes. If we follow YOUR timeline we lose one or all of Hayward, Hood, and Favors because we are paying THAT stiff. Following your advice we would have Barnes and some dude we drafted at #12, no Hill, and probably no shot at the playoffs.

If you were prepared to max Harrison Barnes and deal with the financial complications of doing that, you sure as Hell pay Hill what he is worth which should be considerably less than what you would have been paying Barnes. If we are a top 4 team in the west we SHOULD be paying some luxury tax. It is what the winning teams do. If we have 5 guys that are worthy of max contracts we sign them all and possibly trade one for something good and cheaper when the time comes. That is the beauty of developing your players, you get to keep them if you want them. Sure as hell beats overpaying for an overhyped stiff like Barnes.
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I'm not with you on this. The way I saw it, Barnes would be replacing Diaw and Joe Johnson.. those salaries and positions line up.

Like I said if Hill keeps playing like this he's worth at least 15mm a season, which is a lot..

Harrison Barnes also would cause an issue with the salaries in the summer of 2018, but to me he'd prove to be a trade target even at that price, given 2 or 1½ seasons with the Jazz he'd only be 26 years old.. Barnes would also provide some insurance for if the UFA's Hayward and Favors walked...

This also saves them like 5-6 mil upfront which can be spent later, if they go into the season with just Exum-Mack-Neto at PG..

and like I said before with the Warriors winning the chip this year, whats the rush?!? Hill could've just been signed in the summer and we could've had an extra lottery talent to develop..

Instead 'we're giving him a perfect platform for him to run the price up on 'us'..
 
Like with most things on this board, it is too early to even have this conversation. The sample size is too small. At this point, the gorilla is just a stuffed animal.
 
If we had a do over on the diaw trade we might be able to have enough cap space to renegotiate and re-sign both Favs and Hill and lower the back end of their contracts. If DL can get something negotiated we might give up a second to dump diaw.

Crazy move would be to move both Burks and diaw take back one low salary player and use the space to give a bunch of money now and see if you can get a steep discount in the later years for Hill and Favs. Not sure anyone would trade for Burks until he's healthy.
 
PG_AB said:
Instead 'we're giving him a perfect platform for him to run the price up on 'us'..
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I've never seen somebody use the power of hindsight so shamelessly before. When we first made the trade you said Hill was "hardly an upgrade" over Mack.
 
MT Steve said:
I've never seen somebody use the power of hindsight so shamelessly before. When we first made the trade you said Hill was "hardly an upgrade" over Mack.
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Also like it's a selfish endeavor on his part and we aren't getting something out of the deal.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
If we had a do over on the diaw trade we might be able to have enough cap space to renegotiate and re-sign both Favs and Hill and lower the back end of their contracts. If DL can get something negotiated we might give up a second to dump diaw.

Crazy move would be to move both Burks and diaw take back one low salary player and use the space to give a bunch of money now and see if you can get a steep discount in the later years for Hill and Favs. Not sure anyone would trade for Burks until he's healthy.
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Doubtful. Diaw is not guaranteed next year. That's partly why we wanted him. It's more likely that JJ gets moved. We are on the hook for 10 Million for him next season. If we need to clear both of them then yes but I think JJ being dealt would be prioritized over Diaw.
 
PG_AB said:
It's certainly paying early dividends, there's still a great deal of risk involved though and if it's just for a 1 year rental in which they don't win a championship it's basically all for naught. Also if they turn a draft pick into a player that they need to pay a truckload of $$ like what this thread is about, the trade isn't as efficient as it initially appears, it's more like a good FA signing at the cost of a lottery pick..

that trade involves a draft pick so it will be years til we can truly tell, I say it's likely that the BPA at that spot will end up a damn good player.

There's also the risk of what if Hill gets hurt..
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What a BS argument. Name one single player or future draft pick in the entire NBA who doesn't carry that risk.
 
Skankhunt42 said:
Plan B?



It pisses me off when fans boo him still. I has shown himself humble for many years now. He knows he made a mistake and you can tell he regrets it every day.
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It pisses a lot of us off. It's a few idiot fans, and I think Deron is smart and informed enough to know the majority of us appreciate what he did to help this franchise and hopefully he can come back and play some role in our franchise when he retires. He was an important part of Jazz history.

I like the idea that past players stay involved throughout the years. I think it's fun for the fans, displays loyalty, and helps create a good culture to be around. That's a valuable asset.
 
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