This season will vindicate Ty Corbin

[LogGrad98]

.8 isn't necessarily statistically significant. What is the p value. What are the variables. I will scan back a few pages I guess. Would have been easier to just add that to the graph. And I am going from a standpoint of six sigma/SPC/TQM in industry and manufacturing, which typically has more variables that are harder to isolate (I'm guessing...I know scientific research involves lots of variables as well, not sure if they are necessarily harder to isolate. I would guess it depends on what is being investigated. Come to think of it that would also drive whether or not 5 data points are enough to draw conclusions. 5 years of weather data are not really enough to draw climatic conclusions). Which seems pretty fitting in basketball since it is also hard to isolate variables to prove any kind of causation.

 

[franklin]

.8 isn't necessarily statistically significant.

.83 (the exponential fit) is incredibly impressive given the variability of the game. I said as much in my original post. Take it for what it is.

What is the p value. What are the variables. I will scan back a few pages I guess. Would have been easier to just add that to the graph. And I am going from a standpoint of six sigma/SPC/TQM in industry and manufacturing, which typically has more variables that are harder to isolate (I'm guessing...I know scientific research involves lots of variables as well, not sure if they are necessarily harder to isolate. I would guess it depends on what is being investigated. Come to think of it that would also drive whether or not 5 data points are enough to draw conclusions. 5 years of weather data are not really enough to draw climatic conclusions). Which seems pretty fitting in basketball since it is also hard to isolate variables to prove any kind of causation.

Running a curve involves standards with known quantities & not variables, which is why finding a correlation this tight with so many variables was so impressive to me. You could run correlations all day long with hall of fame players and you'd have a tough time finding that tight of correlation.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Guys, it's this simple--

Have we EVER heard Rudy compliment Ty for how much he's improved, or how much his teammates have improved? Have we ever heard Rudy talk about a personal relationship he's had with Ty?

When coaches change a player's career trajectory, they don't forget it. That's why so many players still keep in contact with college coaches. That's why Millsap talks about how sad he is to see Quin go.


Ty "is what he is"-- a mediocre coach. Not worst in the league, not the best either. Not charismatic enough in a league where coaches need to be more than Xs & Os. I'm sure he'll be back again in the NBA, but any fan of Utah, along with the entire FO, would never trade Snyder for Corbin.


He did develop Burks well, IMO. Favors didn't really develop under his watch. Kanter didn't improve. He used Garrett well. Didn't utilize Rudy at ALL, really. Hayward's biggest improvement came after Corbin left. He ran a good offense for one year with Al, but didn't ever run a consistent defensive scheme.

 

[The Midnight]

Guys, it's this simple--

Have we EVER heard Rudy compliment Ty for how much he's improved, or how much his teammates have improved? Have we ever heard Rudy talk about a personal relationship he's had with Ty?

When coaches change a player's career trajectory, they don't forget it. That's why so many players still keep in contact with college coaches. That's why Millsap talks about how sad he is to see Quin go.


Ty "is what he is"-- a mediocre coach. Not worst in the league, not the best either. Not charismatic enough in a league where coaches need to be more than Xs & Os. I'm sure he'll be back again in the NBA, but any fan of Utah, along with the entire FO, would never trade Snyder for Corbin.


He did develop Burks well, IMO. Favors didn't really develop under his watch. Kanter didn't improve. He used Garrett well. Didn't utilize Rudy at ALL, really. Hayward's biggest improvement came after Corbin left. He ran a good offense for one year with Al, but didn't ever run a consistent defensive scheme.

But do you have a Linear logarithm regression model with a significant R squared variant value to back up this claim?




(lol, just messing with ya)

 

[franklin]

Not charismatic enough in a league where coaches need to be more than Xs & Os.

Completely agree, and it's sad that his behind the scenes style of coaching is so frowned upon. This question recently came up in the TNT coverage (WTF do we have to listen to them cover March Madness anyway???) and they pretty much said a laid back with some fire attitude was the best approach. Kind of like Quin but a tad bit less hostile during games. Corbin was great at not throwing players under the bus, something Quin has done since day one.

He did develop Burks well, IMO. Favors didn't really develop under his watch. Kanter didn't improve. He used Garrett well. Didn't utilize Rudy at ALL, really. Hayward's biggest improvement came after Corbin left. He ran a good offense for one year with Al, but didn't ever run a consistent defensive scheme.

Completely disagree. Derrick has made huge strides under both coaches. His ability to pass out of sets grew a ton last season. It was evident last year that he had the ability to read and react on the go. Kanter improved a lot as well, and frankly it's obnoxious as **** listening to the national media rain praise down upon him now that he's with two superstars. Where was that praise when he was here Reggie Most Overrated Hall of Famer Miller?

Maybe he didn't utilize Rudy but maybe he did try to develop Jeremy with those 18 mpg. Rudy didn't deserve or need the minutes anyway.

 

[Jazz Insider]

lol this thread. lmao.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Corbin was great at not throwing players under the bus, something Quin has done since day one.

Who has Quin thrown under the bus since Day 1? He stuck with Trey and Enes as starters for a long, long time. He's actually gone out of his way to build players up. He's been working with both Trey and Dante all season. Even Ergul admitted there were no complaints with Quin this season. The beef he and Kanter had with the Jazz dated back 1-3 years ago. Are you referring to Carrick Felix not getting a shot and his agent being pissed off about it?

Pretty sure Corbin threw Enes under the bus almost immediately by sending him to the bench when Trey came in to start. Didn't even give Enes a chance to see what he could do with a marginal PG. Kind of the same argument we are using with Kanter going to OKC and doing so well (he's FINALLY playing with a decent PG). Kanter was playing with Tinsley/JLIII, arguably the worst PG duo in the history of the NBA.

I will give you the fact some players were progressing under Corbin. How much of that was due to Corbin and his staff and how much was due to the fact of youngsters just naturally getting better as they go from year 1 to 2 to 3 is debatable. Kanter may have improved, but he was pissed off about coming off the bench. There's a lot of cachet attached to being a STARTER. While you can argue Enes may have been gotten more shot opportunities as a backup, the Jazz did NOT let Millsap and Jefferson go so Marvin Williams could be a starting big. The JazZ FO committed to Enes and Favors as their starting bigs of the future. Apparently Ty didn't get the memo. And we all saw the hard feelings that festered inside Enes and his agent as a result.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Guys, it's this simple--

Have we EVER heard Rudy compliment Ty for how much he's improved, or how much his teammates have improved? Have we ever heard Rudy talk about a personal relationship he's had with Ty?

When coaches change a player's career trajectory, they don't forget it. That's why so many players still keep in contact with college coaches. That's why Millsap talks about how sad he is to see Quin go.


Ty "is what he is"-- a mediocre coach. Not worst in the league, not the best either. Not charismatic enough in a league where coaches need to be more than Xs & Os. I'm sure he'll be back again in the NBA, but any fan of Utah, along with the entire FO, would never trade Snyder for Corbin.


He did develop Burks well, IMO. Favors didn't really develop under his watch. Kanter didn't improve. He used Garrett well. Didn't utilize Rudy at ALL, really. Hayward's biggest improvement came after Corbin left. He ran a alffense for years with Al, but alfense/vetfense is all he knows.

Fixed

 

[Stifle Tower]

Guys, it's this simple--

When coaches change a player's career trajectory, they don't forget it. That's why so many players still keep in contact with college coaches. That's why Millsap talks about how sad he is to see Quin go.

Don't forget about DMC. Carroll was a high-energy, but not really all that impactful sub with Utah. He averaged 17 mins and 6.0 pts. per game: scrub numbers. He had no range. He works with Quin for ONE season and becomes a pretty good starter who shoots 36% on his 3's (and up to 39% this season).

 

[akirac73]

Kanter improved a lot as well, and frankly it's obnoxious as **** listening to the national media rain praise down upon him now that he's with two superstars. Where was that praise when he was here Reggie Most Overrated Hall of Famer Miller?

Actually Kanter hasn't played a single minute with Kevin Durant since being traded to OKC, so we still don't know how well he plays with TWO superstars. He's pretty good with ONE superstar but you can bet his stats decline once KD is back...

 

[franklin]

Don't forget about DMC. Carroll was a high-energy, but not really all that impactful sub with Utah. He averaged 17 mins and 6.0 pts. per game: scrub numbers. He had no range. He works with Quin for ONE season and becomes a pretty good starter who shoots 36% on his 3's (and up to 39% this season).

Corbin made Carroll relevant. If it wasn't for Corbin molding and developing Carroll he'd be in the d-league or Europe. Loved watching Carroll play here. He was one of those got away players like Wes Matthews.

 

[Litany]

Completely agree, and it's sad that his behind the scenes style of coaching is so frowned upon. This question recently came up in the TNT coverage (WTF do we have to listen to them cover March Madness anyway???) and they pretty much said a laid back with some fire attitude was the best approach. Kind of like Quin but a tad bit less hostile during games. Corbin was great at not throwing players under the bus, something Quin has done since day one.





Completely disagree. Derrick has made huge strides under both coaches. His ability to pass out of sets grew a ton last season. It was evident last year that he had the ability to read and react on the go. Kanter improved a lot as well, and frankly it's obnoxious as **** listening to the national media rain praise down upon him now that he's with two superstars. Where was that praise when he was here Reggie Most Overrated Hall of Famer Miller?

Maybe he didn't utilize Rudy but maybe he did try to develop Jeremy with those 18 mpg. Rudy didn't deserve or need the minutes anyway.

Not everyone is raining praise on Kanter. This is Mr. Lowe recently:

Kanter has been killing it on offense and on the glass for Oklahoma City — he has even discovered the concept of passing! — but he is completely clueless on defense...

No wonder Utah was anxious to give Rudy Gobert more minutes. Kanter is a sieve against the pick-and-roll. He runs around and shifts his feet, but his timing and footwork are all wrong, and any top-level ball handler can blow by him into the paint. Several teams have already run the “go at Kanter on every possession” crunch-time offense, and that would figure to intensify in the playoffs. Oklahoma City is allowing 109 points per 100 possessions with Kanter on the floor, even worse than the league’s worst defense.

https://grantland.com/the-triangle/...without-durant-for-the-oklahoma-city-thunder/

 

[Stoked]

Corbin made Carroll relevant. If it wasn't for Corbin molding and developing Carroll he'd be in the d-league or Europe. Loved watching Carroll play here. He was one of those got away players like Wes Matthews.

I have to disagree. Carroll made not playing him unrealistic. He didn't improve the way he has till he moved on from Corbin. Giving that credit to Corbin is unfair imo.

Credit for Carroll on the Jazz goes to Lindsey and credit for Carroll's improvement goes to the ATL coaching staff.

 

[franklin]

I have to disagree. Carroll made not playing him unrealistic. He didn't improve the way he has till he moved on from Corbin. Giving that credit to Corbin is unfair imo.

Credit for Carroll on the Jazz goes to Lindsey and credit for Carroll's improvement goes to the ATL coaching staff.

It was hyperbole. As much as you pretending a young Carroll wasn't great under Corbin.


Corbin gave Carroll the latitude to do what he did best: gamble on offense for steals. Carroll became relevant under Corbin and might not have had that latitude under many other coaches. Corbin read his abilities perfectly and allowed him to take the gambles that many other Utah players weren't allowed to take (Carroll had by far more defensive latitude than Hayward). Corbin also utilized his bad shot to start developing him into a shooter. He was put in some pretty damn good shooting situations by Corbin, but we won't get into that.

 

[franklin]

Stoked, are you honestly saying Carroll didn't improve in Utah? He went from a nobody to a fan favorite. Sometimes I can't tell whether these comments are revisionist or just trolling me for the fun of it.

 

[RJF]

There are no words this thread...


Except, how did that crow taste?

 

[Stoked]

Stoked, are you honestly saying Carroll didn't improve in Utah? He went from a nobody to a fan favorite. Sometimes I can't tell whether these comments are revisionist or just trolling me for the fun of it.

Carroll was a favorite because of his hustle which he had all along. Yes, he improved some while in Utah but his big improvement came from the ATL coaching staff.

Also stop with the nonsense. I never once said Carroll wasn't good under Corbin. All I did was question your assigning the credit for his continued improvement to Corbin.

Edit; I will admit the trolling comment made me smile though.

 

[franklin]

Quin the development god. He made Hayward an All Star, Favors finally turn the corner & Gobert a freak. He is responsible for all player development but not responsible for Exum being trash, Burke regressing, Kanter not learning a damn thing, and Hood failing to stay healthy.

From reading these comments I'm sure Gobert would have been demoted to d-league this season without Quin and Favors sold off for peanuts.

 

[akirac73]

Corbin also utilized his bad shot to start developing him into a shooter. He was put in some pretty damn good shooting situations by Corbin, but we won't get into that.

Those "pretty damn good shooting situations" couldn't have been all that great...DMC's 3pt % worsened under Corbin, DMC shot 36.8% in year one under Corbin, then dropped to 28.6% in year 2. Once Carroll left Utah and played for a real coach his 3pt shooting percentages increased close to 40%. Where do you come up with this crap?

 

[Deleted member 848]

Corbin made Carroll relevant. If it wasn't for Corbin molding and developing Carroll he'd be in the d-league or Europe. Loved watching Carroll play here. He was one of those got away players like Wes Matthews.

Agreed. Give credit to Carroll, of course, but credit to Ty for placing him in a role where he succeeded. I loved Demarre from the get go.

It was hyperbole. As much as you pretending a young Carroll wasn't great under Corbin.


Corbin gave Carroll the latitude to do what he did best: gamble on offense for steals. Carroll became relevant under Corbin and might not have had that latitude under many other coaches. Corbin read his abilities perfectly and allowed him to take the gambles that many other Utah players weren't allowed to take (Carroll had by far more defensive latitude than Hayward). Corbin also utilized his bad shot to start developing him into a shooter. He was put in some pretty damn good shooting situations by Corbin, but we won't get into that.

I agree with this post. Corbin did best with Demarre & Burks imo. Probably Diante as well.